A lot of the initiatives are ineffective by design because the real goal is to give the consumers agency over the problem. Corporations have known that individual effort is a drop in the bucket but by framing the problem as not not a "corporate" problem but a "society" problem, they can keep not fixing it, for profit.
BP created the concept of a carbon footprint to make customers feel responsible for climate change. The reality is that consumer choices make no difference in the face of China building a dozen new giant coal power plants each year. This needs to be tackled diplomatically, and nations need to be willing to negotiate with much more force. China emits more than double the CO2 of the U.S. That’s just CO2. There’s PFAS, methane, plastics, and hundreds of others pollutants. They’re destroying whole oceans with their huge bottom-trawling fishing fleets. It’s time we get serious about tackling the major polluters first.
A corporate problem and a societal problem are two sides of the same coin. Corporations don't make money in isolation, they make money because they sell things that (directly or ultimately) are bought by consumers.
You could choose to imagine a scenario where the CEOs of Shell, BP, ExxonMobil, etc just voluntarily decide to stop extracting oil overnight, and think that would be more impactful than billions of individual consumers slashing their demand for carbon-intensive products and fuels. But if the consumers don't change their behaviour and continue to demand this stuff, other companies would just step in to fill the gap, takeover the old oil fields, etc.
The sustainable way to change corporate behaviour is through changing their end-consumers' behaviour - i.e. if end-consumers stop directly buying carbon-intensive products and stop buying from carbon-intensive companies.
Corps frame it as an individualist problem because they don't want regulation, which is really the only viable way to attack the problem (and regulations needs to be backed by treaties with teeth since it is a global problem).
You can't expect every consumer to research every product and service they buy to make sure these products were made with an acceptable footprint. And if low-footprint products/services are more expensive or somehow not quite as good, there will be a financial incentive to use higher footprint products (if individuals acted "rationally," this is what they would do).
I think there is two important points that you haven't considered:
Information asymmetry: in economics, this is the situation where one party has more/better information than the other. Of course a big corporation will have more information about a product I'm using that I would on every product I use, especially given that they can hire as many specialists as they want. Because of this, consumers should not be expected to take care of all societal change through their choices
You seem to imply that these companies only exist to satisfy a customer need. While this is partially true, this completely omits the fact that since 15 years, every company has a marketing department, whose sole purpose is to suscit this need in the consumer mind. Company are not just need-fulfilling machines, but also self feeding systems. You can't talk about the fact that renewing your phone emits a lot of carbon without talking about the fact that every phone company spends millions at making you want to renew it
Pretty much. Only large scale solutions will have any chance of working. A lot of it implies stuff like recycling or figure out ways of turning waste into something non-harmful. So anything you see on an individual level is pretty much guaranteed to be pointless.
The embarrassing thing will be that we did nothing to limit private jets.
If everyone but world leaders had to fly with us poor's, wed be doing a hell of a lot better than we are.
We never address the easy, large targets because those targets are rich people and they pay for it to not be addressed.
It's embarrassing that we have an Internet and are unable to come together to fight such a small group of people.
Private jets are a negligible amount of emissions. ALL air travel makes up just 2% of emissions.
Honestly, if that was the only embarrassing thing, we'd be golden.
air travel is negligible.
the real killer is the animal industry and traffic.
and quitting animal consumption is a lot easier than not driving.
Do not let perfection get in the way of progress.
The vast majority of these initiatives are just pointless "greenwashing".
I gave up hope when I learned that the blue and green recycle bins in my area are really only there to make the consumer feel better about how much we waste as a society. A lot of the stuff we put in those bins still just winds up in a landfill.
Also incineration as "energy recycling" - https://www.cleanenergywire.org/factsheets/waste-energy-controversial-power-generation-incineration
Some are already being questioned as inadequate. Carbon offsets often times don't offset much carbon at all. Some of that is on purpose and are just people trying to make a quick buck, but some are actual humanitarian efforts that didn't take into account all factors and end up being much less effective than initially thought.
John Oliver has a segment on carbon offsets and, yeah, they sound like typical cash grabs under the guise of "green" Vid: https://youtu.be/6p8zAbFKpW0
Use them in my industry, or rather are starting to, and this is apparent.
Today's initiatives are theater.
100 companies are responsible for 71% of the worlds emissions. The rest is also mainly companies. The idea of a carbon footprint is propaganda invented by BP (this sounds like a conspiracy but I swear it's true, look it up). Before anything you personally can accomplish can make any difference, we would first have to significantly change society.
It's just not true that we can't make a difference though - it's just easier for people to think that. Even if corporations, China, people on private jets etc. are damaging Earth and its inhabitants, our habits still make a difference also. You know, we can do what we can do personally at the same time as voting, campaigning and protesting for the change we can't control.
Speak for yourself, I'm peeing in the shower.
Yes, we're basically doing nothing. Then we'll run around like headless chicken when things will start to get really bad. And when the mass deaths will start, well, we'll start acting, by killing each other.
I’m guessing it starts with the supply chain.
It will be like COVID all over again. Got toilet paper?
Except it will not get better after a few years.
While they have close to no value from practical standpoint, they do allow to start the conversation about the seriousness of climate issues.
Literally everything that isn't investing in Nuclear Fusion and electrification.
I think very soon we’ll look back on virtually everything we’ve done to help the planet/climate as stupid and inadequate sadly.
Anything that's safe to advocate for in a public forum is inadequate.
I think it’s safe to say the whole climate change episode will go down as this era’s “How could they be so stupid or bad like that?!” Like Germans during the Nazis, slave owners in the US, medieval superstitions during the plague etc. All of it will become a lesson in what not to do and how not to think.
Collectively our generation will be marked as that which had all the means and privileges one could hope for but the foresight and wisdom of bricks.
The paper vs plastic thing sucks because both are bad. Paper needs trees to be cut down and single use plastics are horrible for the environment
At least paper can be produced through sustainable farming practices and any waste is almost entirely biodegradable.
But I do agree that the debate sucks. What we should really be doing is forcing corporations and governments to 1. Adhere to very strict sustainability levels and 2. Pay for clean up efforts out of the salaries of their board of directors. Any corporation that declares a profit or gives a bonus to someone in managment without meating their sustainability requirements results in large fines for the company as well as every individual member of the board of directors. And anyone who claims they can't pay within 12 months is given jail time and stripped of all assets instead.
Sounds harsh, sure. But till we start holding them accountable, it's not going to matter how many people are using reusable plastic shopping bags or soggy paper straws. It's not going to make any difference
Ha, look at this optimist who thinks there'll be people in the future.
I think most people who want to do something about regulating climate change to prevent creating an uninhabitable world already think today's measures are stupid and inadequate. People won't be thinking much of anything in the future when we're all dead.
I've learned that we're doing an even poor job of handling recyclables, the very thing we're beaten over the head with to be responsible about.
By oil companies. They pushed the plastic recycling narrative before it was even feasible to recycle it, all to sell more oil for plastics.
You know that recycling logo with the three arrows? It doesn't even mean that the plastic is recyclable; it simply states what type of plastic the material is made out of.
NPR did a recent investigation in this matter, and less than 5% of recycled plastic, given to your local recycling plant, actually gets recycled.
Not to mention that we didn't even know if our recycling was even recycled. We used to ship it to countries in Asia, burning bunker oil all the way there, and whatever happened to it happened. Out of sight, out of mind, and likely not recycled.
The best thing you can do is not buy disposable plastics. Even other materials that are very recyclable, like aluminum and glass, still needs to be shipped, processed, melted down, and remanufactured to be useful. It's better for the environment, but not anywhere close to net zero.
Not to mention that we didn’t even know if our recycling was even recycled. We used to ship it to countries in Asia, burning bunker oil all the way there, and whatever happened to it happened. Out of sight, out of mind, and likely not recycled.
No need to use the past tense, this is still the case in most cases.
There won't be a "we" to look back on them, so I wouldn't worry about it.
It's a difficult topic, those of us already engaged with the problem are already aware that the current solutions are inadequate, but, every year we are making improvements.
Is that going to be enough? It depends on what you define as enough. I'd describe myself as short term pessimist but long term optimist.
By that I mean, short term there are far too many vested interests (stranded capital, the income of various nation states, nationalism in general, the 8 hour day, our built environment and the car centric nature of its design) to do the sort of immediate changes that we needed to have averted this problem. We needed to have started meaningfully pursuing this in the 70s, not the 2010s.
But that shouldn't take away from the fact that the ever increasing rollout of renewable energy generation is better than continuing to use coal and gas. Every ton of CO2 we don't emit is a ton we don't have to get rid of later. That is as true today was it was 50 years ago, or 50 years in the future.
Long term, I'm optimistic that humans will continue to develop new technologies and the political and economic will shifts to meaningfully tackle climate change and we ultimately will survive, but I am expecting billions to die explicitly due to climate change - ie from floods, droughts, famine, war caused by the preceeding, internment of fleeing refugees, etc - in the interim. I won't be surprised if towards the end of my life terms like ecocide start to shift to mean genocide of humans via negligent climate policies, eg when Bangladesh goes under water.
The next 100 years is going to be a brutal mix of exciting technological breakthroughs, coupled with soul crushing deaths of people in countries who predominantly did very little to cause the problem.
Sure but have you tried goin grink?
Please don't post about US Politics. If you need to do this, try !politicaldiscussion@lemmy.world
1) Be nice and; have fun
Doxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. Please familiarize yourself with them
2) All posts must end with a '?'
This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?
3) No spam
Please do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.
4) NSFW is okay, within reason
Just remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either !asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world or !asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com.
NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].
5) This is not a support community.
It is not a place for 'how do I?', type questions.
If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to Lemmy.world Support or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.
Reminder: The terms of service apply here too.
Logo design credit goes to: tubbadu
