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[-] Jackthelad@lemmy.world 107 points 10 months ago

"Breeding animals for consumption is fine, except this one."

It is slightly odd how people are like, "cows? Gimme that burger. Sheep? Mmm, mint sauce. Chicken? Batter that baby up". But then suddenly everyone turns into a vegan when it's a dog or a horse.

I've got no interest in eating dog meat, but where's the consistency?

[-] darganon@lemmy.world 27 points 10 months ago

I've got no counterpoint, but I had the same realization, and it has made me question not being vegan. I'm like 80% without trying, but also replacing eggs and cheese is difficult

[-] pm_me_your_quackers@lemmy.world 62 points 10 months ago

Fuck vegan absolutists, the fact that you're trying is enough

[-] BlueLineBae@midwest.social 30 points 10 months ago

I am firmly of the belief that most of the issues in the meat/dairy industry would be resolved if everyone simply consumed less of them as opposed to becoming vegan. That's how I live my life and I've gotten praises from doctors and nutrition specialists about my diet. Exercise is another thing tho....

[-] wellee@lemmy.world 19 points 10 months ago

Right, that's what I tell people too. I still eat fish on occasion, and if I order food to go and it's accidentally meat, I will eat it to not waste it.

Have had a few relatives look at me blankly, like they've never considered it, when I tell them they don't NEED to be vegetarian but reducing meat/dairy requires little effort. Sometimes they will send me pictures of the reduced meat meals they make now, which I think is so cute haha. Meat even just as a side dish and not the main course goes a long way :)

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[-] NotAPenguin@kbin.social 10 points 10 months ago

Animals would still be getting exploited and killed tho

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[-] 2d@kbin.social 8 points 10 months ago

People aren't consuming less, though, they're consuming more. Global meat consumption is still rising. Despite supporting myself on a retail-industry income, I'm still able to be 100% vegan, and support zero animal cruelty.
Less is great. None is best. Your only rationale in your comment for why eating less animal products is better than going completely vegan is... that's the way you live so you want that to be the case?

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[-] NotAPenguin@kbin.social 17 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Trying is good but very real animals are still suffering for eggs and cheese.

Is it really wrong to think that the right amount of animal cruelty is none?

[-] wellee@lemmy.world 24 points 10 months ago

Reducing without a strict diet is much easier for people. Small wins. If you can make a "I only eat meat, what are veggies?" person reduce their meat intake at all, that's a super big win. Changing your entire meal prep is a huge undertaking and most people just won't do it because it's too overwhelming. Reducing meat to a side, and being more mindful? Way easier.

[-] Buddahriffic@lemmy.world 5 points 10 months ago

Chickens just lay eggs. It's just a thing they do. The factory chicken farms are fucked and shouldn't exist but ethical eggs are a thing.

[-] NotAPenguin@kbin.social 9 points 10 months ago

They've been bred to lay an extreme amount of unnaturally big eggs.

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[-] jeffw@lemmy.world 7 points 10 months ago

I think even ethical eggs end up with some amount of suffering or premature death. Like those videos of the baby chicks being ground up.

[-] chicken@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

A large portion of health issues and causes of death chickens face are egg related. Sometimes the eggs get stuck, sometimes they break before being laid and cause an infection, vent prolapse, cancer, etc. That's not to say I don't think we should eat eggs, with a lot of cooking there is just no good substitute, but even the most pampered hen doesn't have it easy.

[-] NotAPenguin@kbin.social 6 points 10 months ago

You can do it :)

It can be scary thinking about it but give it a real try and you'll realize that it's actually much easier than you thought.

[-] wellee@lemmy.world 3 points 10 months ago

I like to get eggs from my neighbors who have backyard chickens if they have extra. I can see them, know they're not in pain, or mass produced :)

Cheese I still have no idea. Their isn't anything easily available, like almond milk for dairy milk. The vegan ones I've tried (years ago) are gross and full of emulsifiers. Always striving/looking though.

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[-] oce@jlai.lu 19 points 10 months ago

There's none, it's based on what society tells you to feel empathy for. Dog eaters and corrida enjoyers are no different from people eating massively produced industrial chicken, they just live in an environment where it is normal to do that.

[-] qyron@sopuli.xyz 14 points 10 months ago

The base difference is that dogs evolved side by side with our species to develop and return emotional bonding and feedback with humans.

All other animals we managed to domesticate, at best, tolerate us or fear us. Cute little photos of cows and pigs enjoying being hugged and petted are exceptions, not norm.

I've been trying to understand, for years, what happened to turn dogs and cats food in asian countries (beside famines, hence desperation) but every single source I was ever able to find always gets muddled in exotheric notions of ”medicinal" use or some other folklore high tale.

For context: in Vietnam, cat meat is often served as being "little tiger".

To the extent of my knowledge, the rest of the world never needed to wrap an animal in an exotheric tale to declare it as potential food.

[-] Coasting0942@reddthat.com 5 points 10 months ago

lol, that’s every domesticated animal.

I’d rather focus on banning the ones further along on the path to having a conversation with us. Like the damn Octopus

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[-] oce@jlai.lu 5 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

How can you tell this happened more to dogs and cats than any other domestic animal? Many people report farm animals to establish emotional bounding too, typically cows wanting to play and cuddle, way more than the average cat. Cows are also considered sacred by a notable percentage of humanity.
I'm pretty sure there are thousands of other examples of traditions providing tales about why some animal is eaten. One Christian example that comes to me is Easter lamb.
I think your point is still the cultural bias I talked about earlier.

[-] qyron@sopuli.xyz 3 points 10 months ago

Then let's turn this on another angle: dogs came to be from a predator, and an apex one, capable and willing to prey on our species, unlike all other species we managed to domesticate.

Cats are not even domesticated, for all objective parameters. Cats are still predators, both potential and active. It is not without reason domestic cats are being viewed more and more as destructive for wild species.

I can go out on a leg and speculate these two species became viewed as food wrapped in myths, with tales of obtaining special powers or some other strange purpose besides avoiding death by lack of nourishment.

All other species we managed to tame came froma what are commonly considered prey animals and it was mostly a process of reducing the animals wariness to us.

Cows are considered a representation of one of the many indu gods and have a very unique status as such but are nonetheless still a source of food through the milk they provide.

Your examples are true and valid but I will insist those are exceptions and not norm. I live in a rural area and sheep, goats and cows are part of the landscape. The animals tolerate human presence, often understand it as a source of food and safety, but are wary, suspitious and generally keep their distance. Even pigs, that are considerably more inteligent than all farm animals don't easily mingle with humans. But any dog, even a feral one, will approach us willingly.

A very welcome bonus to my job is going to places where usually other people won't go and often find varying degrees of feral dogs. After the initial suspition, I find myself approached by the animals, observed, sniffed and "bothered" for pets and play. I wish I could do this with other animals but other animals avoid me and do their best to keep me as far away as possible.

Your remark on the lambs. The christian/jewish/islamic carried over the tradition from previous people. Sheep were often offerings towards supernatural entities but started as a resource/food source (wool and milk and finally meat).

[-] chicken@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 10 months ago

This is an interesting angle. Makes me wonder, do we have a moral duty to reciprocate love and loyalty, or the potential for it? And if not, what basis can there be for treatment of human beings?

[-] qyron@sopuli.xyz 4 points 10 months ago

Interesting question from a chicken.

My concern is not morality and neither is that the issue here.

The animals we call farm animals today came from what are considered prey animals and the process of domestication was essentialy a process of reducing fear and wariness towards our species.

Dogs came to be from an apex predator that, we speculate, found advantageous to actively associate with our species for mutual benefit.

Different origins produced different outcomes.

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[-] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 10 points 10 months ago

It's purely for a cheap optics win. President Yoon is a fascist incel that has been taking L after L, so he worked to ban dog meat despite almost nobody eating it except the absolute poorest of society. Dog meat isn't a delicacy, it wasn't something people ate because they saw it as high status, it was largely abandoned by an increasingly westernized South Korea, except for those who couldn't afford anything else. Barely anyone was eating it.

Instead, it's virtue signaling by a fascist looking to grab cheap publicity wins rather than actually making good systemic change. Dog meat wasn't an especially pressing concern, it was an almost gone practice out of necessity, coming from food insecurity, especially during and after the Korean War.

TL;DR still a good thing, but ultimately just a publicity stunt to distract from the fascist President Yoon butchering the economy and targeting women, minorities, and disabled people.

[-] Vilian@lemmy.ca 9 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

don't forget that india cow is sacred, so it's even worse for them seeing us eating cows than us seeing others eating dogs

[-] Underwaterbob@lemm.ee 7 points 10 months ago

a horse

They eat horse in Korea, too. It's just not as widespread as dog, so no ban yet.

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[-] sour@kbin.social 16 points 10 months ago

now do beef

[-] NotAPenguin@kbin.social 6 points 10 months ago
[-] Catoblepas@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 points 10 months ago

I’m sure all the people eating dog on here will take it into consideration.

[-] 2d@kbin.social 14 points 10 months ago

i doubt there are any dog meat eaters reading this, but chicken, cow, fish, etc? Still animals, some more intelligent than dogs.

[-] Catoblepas@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 points 10 months ago

Might as well spam “go vegan” on any thread about animals, then, it’ll do as much.

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[-] NotAPenguin@kbin.social 7 points 10 months ago

All the people eating any animals should take it into consideration

[-] Catoblepas@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 10 months ago

I’m sure everyone else will give it just as much consideration.

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[-] tamal3@lemmy.world 5 points 10 months ago

I downvoted this post as I don't find this uplifting at all. I don't eat meat, and I love my dog, but there's no reason to single out dog meat consumption other than cultural norms and globalization. It seems like an unreasonable position for the South Korean government to have taken.

[-] iBaz@lemmy.world 16 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

My Korean meat farm rescue Jindo and I disagree with you.

[-] Poxlox@lemmy.world 7 points 10 months ago

You gave him such a great gift of love and care. I'm so happy you did that.

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[-] Laticauda@lemmy.ca 3 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Iirc the reason for singling out dog meat was because of the cruel ways dogs in particular are killed for dog meat.

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[-] 21Cabbage@lemmynsfw.com 4 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

I've never really gotten the controversy on this one, the only real difference is dogs are the only primarily carnivorous mammal we as a species eat in any volume. Otherwise the problem appears to be mostly emotional, like I have a furball and I'd never eat him but I don't have an emotional connection with the beef marinating in the fridge.

[-] otp@sh.itjust.works 7 points 10 months ago

I'm actually surprised this is in uplifting news, unless outlawing meat consumption at all and enforcing veganism is uplifting. Which it might be to some people, but I like eating meat.

I'm eagerly awaiting lab-grown meat to become cheaper than slaughtered meat, though!

[-] Holyginz@lemmy.world 3 points 10 months ago

I would LOVE it if they had lab grown meat that could approximate real types of meat. I would stop eating slaughtered meat immediately and never go back.

[-] riodoro1@lemmy.world 3 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Chickens being suffocated and baked alive in thousands at a time still ok tho. Stupid fucking chickens.

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this post was submitted on 09 Jan 2024
333 points (93.2% liked)

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