It's like west took a big L in human history (lemmygrad.ml)

submitted 9 months ago by mughaloid@lemmygrad.ml to c/genzedong@lemmygrad.ml

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[-] AmarkuntheGatherer@lemmygrad.ml 42 points 9 months ago

The commies are proven right every damn time. It's like we've got some sort of clairvoyance.

In the sense of being new information, this isn't news. Israel wanting to decimate the population of Gaza isn't news. There being US-backed nazis in the Ukraine wasn't news, nor was Zelesky beinga puppet who'd destroy his country, the US wanting war with Russia, there not being a genocide in Xinjiang, Iraq not having WMDs, Saddam not being behing 9/11 and so on and so on.

[-] cfgaussian@lemmygrad.ml 29 points 9 months ago

It's not news to us but it is news to the majority of the population here in the West who for decades have not been exposed to anything other than the lies of the liberal imperialist propaganda apparatus.

[-] mughaloid@lemmygrad.ml 16 points 9 months ago

I am just wondering how western elite thought that Russia gaining all the Donbass, kherson and others would be beneficial for them. Lol 😂 . This ukraine thing is the biggest loss for the West and US

[-] cfgaussian@lemmygrad.ml 15 points 9 months ago

Initially they really deluded themselves into thinking they could defeat or at least severely degrade Russia. Instead all they managed to do is make Russia much, much stronger in all respects: militarily, economically and diplomatically.

The West all but admits the first two, and the only reason they still can't see the last is because they are stuck in their bubble where they think that the entire "international community" consists only of the West and its vassals.

[-] CicadaSpectre@lemmygrad.ml 11 points 9 months ago

I've been under the impression that the game plan was to use Ukraine as a quagmire to tie up Russia, test new technologies, force the EU into an even more subservient, buffer state role, and use Ukraine as a martyr to rally Russophobic Western sentiments and manufacture consent for new "security" measures in the West that would further silence opposition. I feel the ultimate goal was really China - using the martyred Ukraine as a call to arms to "save Taiwan", as it were (the news painting Russia as villainous made a big deal of effort trying to tie China to everything Russia did in the war, and comparing the situation in Ukraine to the situation with Taiwan).

It's the only thing I could think of that made any kind of sense. The only alternative is that they genuinely believed Ukraine could have beaten Russia with only military aid. I don't doubt some people in positions of power could be convinced of that, but at the highest levels I have to believe this was just another attempt by the US to keep Russia off-balance enough that the US could try and cut China down.

[-] PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmygrad.ml 17 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

Disagree. While they did achieved lot of points especially with EU, they really hoped for Russia to collapse or at least plunge into crisis which will force it to retreat, regime change and comply with US imperialism (that's why Ukraine was never planned to militarily win, they just had to stand for a time and that's why the initial loss of much territory was irrelevant to US).

It's not the 4D chess, US really fucked it big time with consequences mounting, and it's not really surprising considering their plan makers isn't what they used to be during cold war.

I feel the ultimate goal was really China - using the martyred Ukraine as a call to arms to “save Taiwan”, as it were (the news painting Russia as villainous made a big deal of effort trying to tie China to everything Russia did in the war, and comparing the situation in Ukraine to the situation with Taiwan).

Yes, the ultimate target was China, but not like this. More directly, the most dangerous thing for US is either EU-Russia or Russia-China scenario. Neutralising Russia would do away with both, put US in much stronger position against China and ensure continuation of US hegemony for forseeable future. So while they succeeded in breaking up the EU-Russia closing and severly delayed EU-China, they pushed Russia closest to China they were since the Sino-Soviet split.

[-] mughaloid@lemmygrad.ml 8 points 9 months ago

Yours is absolutely correct. Bidens , UK, Germans are a big time dumb people.

[-] bennieandthez@lemmygrad.ml 8 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

what historical and dialectical materialism does to mfers

[-] CannotSleep420@lemmygrad.ml 19 points 9 months ago

abandoned zelensky

[-] OrnluWolfjarl@lemmygrad.ml 18 points 9 months ago

"by something or someone"

Come on you cowards! Say the names! Boris Johnson on behalf of Emperor Joe

[-] ButtigiegMineralMap@lemmygrad.ml 11 points 9 months ago

Interesting that Arestovich thinks he will not be extradited, as he is living in the US. Sure, USA has some pull and sure, Ukraine is a bit busy at the moment, but he will get extradited, you can trust the USA as far as you can throw it

[-] cfgaussian@lemmygrad.ml 9 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

He's an opportunist through and through, i'm sure he's hedged all his bets. Also there is a good chance he is still an asset of a certain faction in the US deep state. Not the one that controls Zelensky and is still all-in on continuing the war, but a rival faction that sees the bigger picture and is worried about the damage this quagmire is doing to the empire.

[-] mughaloid@lemmygrad.ml 5 points 9 months ago

I am just wondering what's the point of this war even. Trump Republicans don't want this war but certainly all dems are into it. Russia seems have no interest to move or they are just happy with the pace of war 🤣

[-] cfgaussian@lemmygrad.ml 15 points 9 months ago

The point, now that Plan A - degrading or defeating Russia - has failed, is Plan B - degrade and subjugate Europe. In this respect it is safe to say they are succeeding at the moment. Germany is rapidly deindustrializing, entering into a deep recession while at the same time becoming more and more dependent on and controlled by the US. And as Germany goes so does the EU. The US needs this new colonial subordination of Europe to make up for its empire receding everywhere else in the world. It gets to stave off its own decline by cannibalizing the industry and economic base of Europe.

[-] mughaloid@lemmygrad.ml 12 points 9 months ago

Man, this decade will bring the worst of us. Nazis in Europe and Hindutvavadi in India. Find me another planet

[-] kig_v2@lemmygrad.ml 9 points 9 months ago

The murder-curious, sickly, apocalypse obsessed American fascists when finally let off their chain to play will be the worst of them all.

[-] PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmygrad.ml 4 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

I see no option in which the guy would just go and openly said this. He was certainly moved by some agency hand in his ass.

[+] Honytawk@lemmy.zip -16 points 9 months ago

[removed by mod]

[-] CannotSleep420@lemmygrad.ml 29 points 9 months ago

Not gonna happen. Seethe.

[-] yogthos@lemmygrad.ml 21 points 9 months ago

Why would Russia pull back when they've already comprehensively defeated the NATO proxy?

[-] TAVAR@lemmygrad.ml 21 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

Tried calling Putin, he didn't answer. Its almost as if I have zero influence on him

After Stoltenberg and David Arakhamia admitted it, everybody has realized by now that Nato membership always was at the core of this conflict.

So, no, there is not only one person who can end this war. Not even liberals should be dumb enough to believe that line to begin with.

Assuming you don't live in a dream world: What exactly is the realistic goal you have that more bloodshed will achieve?

If my fellow Western idiots had listened to us, Ukraine would have 20% more land and hundreds of thousands more people would be alive and Germanys tanking economy with military keynesianism knocking wouldn't be at risk of turning the 30s of the 21st century into the 30s of the 20th century

You're playing a little game that you pretend is fueled by care for Ukrainians (- those in Donbas and leftists), whose country you could not point to on a map 3 years ago, but is actually fueled by a media-induced need to see Putin humiliated.

This is the fucking real world where people aren't just flag-emojis and nuclear weapons aren't a boardgame that you can smugly flip over and where the "bad guys" aren't cackling in secret about doing evil but where real contexts are distorted for propagandistic purposes.

Snap the fuck out of your infantile world view and start trying to understand war in order to prevent it or take the blue pill and accept that politics just isn't your cup of tea.

There is too much at stake. We can never stop explaining but we can't parent people either

[-] mughaloid@lemmygrad.ml 15 points 9 months ago

US will also be dead. Get over it. Lol. Russia and China is the future.

[+] Wanderer@lemm.ee -30 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

Anything short of russia leaving all the stolen land isn't favourable.

Russia will just take whatever agreement they have signed, rebuild, then spit all over that agreement and do whatever they can to benefit from the suffering of others. Their country doesn't even have to profit, just the elite.

[-] yogthos@lemmygrad.ml 16 points 9 months ago

Just crawl back to your sewer already.

[-] kig_v2@lemmygrad.ml 16 points 9 months ago

The land was stolen from the Ukranian people by the US Nazi puppet government. Russia liberating it is the next best thing.

[-] DamarcusArt@lemmygrad.ml 14 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

That sounds like an interesting and unique perspective I haven't heard before, can you cite examples of Russia doing this sort of thing in the past? I haven't heard of them breaking agreements like that, it sounds awful for a country to do things like that.

[+] Wanderer@lemm.ee -12 points 9 months ago

Just start here and go from there.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian-occupied_territories

[-] DamarcusArt@lemmygrad.ml 9 points 9 months ago

Sorry, that link doesn't work for me for some reason, can you send me a difference source if you have one?

[+] Wanderer@lemm.ee -14 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

Probably being caught in your brainwashed filter. Bet nothings going to get through.

[-] DamarcusArt@lemmygrad.ml 15 points 9 months ago

Aaw, was hoping for a more interesting response than that. You're really unoriginal.

[-] miz@lemmygrad.ml 2 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

The concept of “brainwashing” was invented — by a CIA agent posing as a journalist — precisely because Westerners needed a way to reflexively dismiss the phenomenon whereby their own troops were being persuaded of communist ideas during communist captivity:

The idea of “brain-washing” can be credited to Edward Hunter, a CIA-funded writer and editor, who in 1950 started writing articles and books on the subject. His thesis was that Red China and the Soviet Union could control the minds of their respective citizenry — which explained how susceptible Americans captured on foreign soil would be.

This new category, supposedly qualitatively different from normal ideology acquisition, itself turns out to be simply an ideological distinction without a difference.

https://redsails.org/brainwashing/

[-] SadArtemis@lemmygrad.ml 2 points 9 months ago

Cry about it, slava Russia. Here's hoping Russia liberates Ukraine right up to Kiev (the Galicians and Volhynians can have their quaint little Blackrock Nazi fiefdom, what's left of it). The only good Nazi is a dead Nazi.

[-] bennieandthez@lemmygrad.ml 6 points 9 months ago

favourable for who? the losers from this conflict are the ukranian people, the goverment failing to reach a peace deal is literally terrorism against the ukranian people.

this post was submitted on 15 Jan 2024

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