Nah in a lot of cases the guy doing the bare minimum also makes more than you.
He's a project manager!
Do project managers make decent money? In my field I've always been told developers make significantly more.
I would make more as project manager, but I don't want to be on the phone and write mails with clients all day
I would rather set myself on fire than to look at budgets, billable rates, timesheets, or talk to people.
I'm hardore technically aligned, and far enough along in my career (and at a good enough company) that I can turn down opportunities to PM.
Look at this fat cat who can turn down opportunities over here!
He's such a dick
Every time I've been promoted I've made more money and done less work. At this rate I'll be 9-5 on the golf course in a few years making $500k/yr.
Kidding. Golf blows.
The real payment is all the traumas we got along the overtimes
Hah! You got overtime? I just got trama and toxic managers.
In a better spot now, though
At my previous job they had a special term for unpaid overtime: "Professional time"
So glad I'm no longer working there.
I get paid way more than my coworkers, and even my supervisor, because when I got hired I immediately made a bunch of random tools in google sheets that only I know how to maintain, and spread them around until everyone was using them. Before long, I was essential to my department, and praised for going "above and beyond" even though I was mostly just dicking around making the tools rather than doing my actual job.
I have 0 coding experience, so the tools are absolutely horrendous behind the scenes, but that just means that they break pretty often, and people are reminded that only I know how to fix them. So, when I went looking around on LinkedIn for other offers after a few years, I eventually got one that was paying way more since it was in a major metro area, and I took it back to my manager to negotiate a 50% raise and a full-remote designation that virtually nobody else in my office is given.
You don't get ahead by working hard, and you don't get ahead by working smart to benefit the company, you get ahead by working smart to benefit yourself. Think about it this way - if you're at the store to buy bananas, and you see that they're selling bananas for $0.05 ea, you'll likely think "Wow, that's a great deal!" and buy a bunch of those bananas at the $0.05 price. You're not going to pay them the price you think would be fair for a banana, you're going to take advantage of the price you're allowed to pay so that you can save money. Your employer sees you - working for less than you're worth - as a $0.05 banana. You're nothing more than a cheap commodity they were lucky to snag on sale.
Making yourself indispensable is a great way to never get promoted.
I turned down the promotion they offered me. It was significantly more work, required me to come back to the office, and only offered a 10% pay raise. It doesn't matter where your "standing" in the company is - if you're indispensable, you can fight for good pay even outside of managerial roles.
As long as you can get constant raises who cares about a promotion? If you got your job nailed down so much you only need to work like 5 hours a week and from home while getting raises I would turn down any promotion.
Bro, I'm salaried and only really need to work six hours a day. So that's exactly what I do. My coworkers put in 12-14 hours a day six days a week... We get the same paycheck.
Granted, I'm consistently rated at the bottom of my department by my supervisors, but I'm also the most highly requested employee by our customers. Literally no one else gets requested by name and I have to triage projects.
See I'm salary but I'm forced to put in 8 hrs a day. Even if I have no work to do. It sucks.
That's horrible. What's the point of salary if you have an hourly requirement? That sounds like fake hourly.
The point of Salary is so they don't have to pay for overtime. The slave labor is the purpose, forcing people to work more than 8 is just a nice little cherry on top ☺️.
Why do you think there is so much disparity between your bosses and your clients?
I show up late and leave early and don't participate in the "work culture" stuff, this makes my employer upset.
I get requested because I'm the best at my job and the customers talk to each other. I've had clients from other employees ask to switch to me but that's not allowed by policy. The best I can do is look at the work they're receiving and give feedback.
Sounds like shitty management.
It's crabs in a bucket and they're mad I won't get in the water. I'm paid well and they mostly leave me alone. They've only once fucked up my career once by bad-mouthing me to a department I tried to transfer to in order to learn a new skill.
"Okay but the guy who goes the extra mile will get a promotion and do better in the long run." ---a guy who has always gone the extra mile, never gotten a promotion and is doing exactly the same as everyone else
I don't go the extra mile for the company. I do it to help make things easier for my coworkers and the people who depend on us in the hope that I can make life a little less shitty for everyone.
I do a little extra because I know my other coworkers fuckin' won't. I tell my new hires that you're not working for the other shift but rather for when it's your shift again.
The thing is, it is not your job to make things easier for others.
It's the company's job to keep their employees happy by providing enough workforce for the amount of work that needs to be done.
You are doing exactly what the company wants you to do, by playing into your emotions.
Just so they don't have to.
Eh, going the extra mile is how I went from customer service agent to senior server engineer in 5 years (with the same company).
There's always a balance between the two, but the most important thing is knowing how to say no without sounding like you're saying no.
It is entirely job dependent. I have been in jobs where it was just a grind and going the extra mile simply put a smile on my boss's face. In jobs like these the best thing you can do is carve out as many hours as possible during the work week to build new skills or apply to other jobs. I've also been in jobs where going the extra mile directly contributed meaningful skills to my resume/portfolio and helped me get a new job with way better pay.
Eh going the extra mile is how I got so burned out I had to quit a job for the sake of my physical and mental health.
Did I get promoted? Hell no. Never did. The boss's wife sure did though.
Yes I'm aware you said balance but I just had to share why I'm currently trying not to care anymore. Note I said trying, I'm really terrible at not giving everything to every project I'm in.
My career has also gone very well in this time period by slacking on my previous job and using the extra time to get my current job. Per minute spent, I think it's more cost effective to look for a new job. Companies hate loyalty now.
I don't even sugar coat the "no" anymore. When the next company calls, all they're going to share is how long I worked there.
Here's a Venn Diagram:
(me) [alienation] (my labor)
but the most important thing is knowing how to say no without sounding like you’re saying no.
Yeah it's a lot about how to market yourself to your higher ups. An employee is a commodity and selling commodites is more about marketing than the actual quality of the product. The biggest victims of that system are the introvert ones who do six extra miles but don't get any recognition
A lot of us "do the bare minimum" do the bare minimum because of all of the time in the past we spent going the extra mile only to be rewarded with ever greater expectations for identical compensation and opportunity.
They made us this way.
No sympathy for them. No mercy!
I go the extra mile. It's not for pay. It's because I'm stuck at work for 8 hours anyways and I'd rather work than pretend to work.
Some people are passionate about always doing the best they can, and they get a great deal of satisfaction from it. I love being excellent at what I do.
I don't have a wife or kids. My jobs are a huge part of my identity. Heck - my night job teaching is something I do because I want to do it, not for the little bit of extra money.
But I also know that I'm weird. Most people just want to do their job and go home to their families, and that's great. They're doing the job, so they should be compensated every bit as much as the people like me who are devoted to their work.
Nah, I get it. I'm much the same way - I don't do things half assed - just not made that way.
That said, I'm also not going to eat the corporate brainwashing gruel. The higher up you go the more you see people just flat accept stupid corporate decisions as 'enlightened' and they heavily adopt the corporate lexicon. Who needs a critical eye when you fit in?
Fuck that noise.
While I realize there are rules, structures, and culture in place. They shouldn't hinder people. IDGAF about how someone does something as long as the product is technically sound, reads like Tolstoy, and was efficiently created.
And neither gets enough to cover inflation.
If you see me going the extra mile, it's probably the side-effects of me using the company's resources to learn and do crazy experiments for my own gain.
Going the extra mile is a good way to never get promoted because you are too valuable in your current position.
It depends on the company and how they treat your job, but mostly as a worker you are there to fulfill a company's requirement. Unless there's a position or incentive to go that extra mile, don't, most companies will never see it. Even if you want to do the extra work for yourself, I'd recommend to find a way to do it as a hobby if it's unrewarded, separate from work.
What they will see is the absence in case they do need it, and then they will be required to fulfill it, although they may not want to focus on better and more empowered workers with higher expectations and may instead just focus on quantity over quality by hiring more people to fill it. Even worse, don't be the guy who makes his (and other's) jobs obsolete to scummy bosses.
Open your eyes, you aren't in school, you aren't getting rewarded for better grades at work unless they make it part of the business and your bosses stick to it and not just plugging in friends, buddies, and associates.
My rule at work has always been based around the bears and hikers analogy. You dont have to be the best at what you do. Just dont be the worst.
Also some jobs afford opportunities for non-conventional self-education. If you can learn useful personal or professional skills while at working, do it, and under the guise of work.
Or in my case, get singled out by a manager from another department for no reason, who then gaslights the other managers into thinking I don't do shit when I'm the only person in my section that even does anything at all. Go through the whole "try to make them quit" playbook but never do anything wrong so they can't fire me. I would have outlasted all those fuckers if circumstance hadn't forced me to move out of state.
Pretty sure they just wanted to eliminate my full-time position to save money.
As if either employee is the problem. Blame the fucking aristocrats shorting both of their paychecks
The guy that does nothing at all and whines until he gets someone else to do it, is also paid the same as you. And will never get fired.
....and the one that puts in the unrecognized effort will eventually punch a hole through several people's chests...
