Austria has a bad history with xenophobia at the beginning of the 20th century and later. The Nazi were popular before Hitler took the power in Germany. They aren't the victims people think. They were more proactive with the regime.
Nowadays, it's for electoral purpose and for internal politic agenda. It has mostly nothing to do with Romania and Bulgaria.
Wait, people see Austria as a victim of the Nazis?
It was the official narrative of the allies after WW2. They expected the Austrians to fight against the Nazis. It didn't work. After that, the Soviet liberated Vienna but the west didn't want them to joint the east block. The less to Stalin, the better. The cold war began...
The world had to wait 1991 to see a Chancellor expressing apologize.
The EU is such a joke, a nightmare of “equal but inferior” relationships between the west and east.
Germany now rules the East like she always wanted but at the cost of being America’s whore.
If the eastern countries were not run by prostitutes they’d split and form their own block.
a nightmare of “equal but inferior” relationships between the west and east...Germany
Pretty sure that this is Austria doing it and for domestic political reasons.
And while I agree that attempts by countries to leverage their "inside before others" position to block other members is obnoxious, there have been vetoes from any number of countries. A while back, Greece was threatening to veto things to shift positions on Cyprus, for example.
As if Visegrad didn't already exist, to push illiberal ideas on the EU.
I love how any mention of eastern/Slavic self determination and freedom earns this kind of racist response.
To even imply Visegrad can “push” anything on the EU means that you’re either retarded or malicious.
Yeah shoot. I actually wanted to correct "push on" to "push in". But hitting me with racism stick because I said Visegrad stands for illiberalism is lame.
Push in or push out, they can’t do either because the EU is explicitly structured so that Eastern counties are less powerful.
The EU and the United States took advantage of the fall of communism (and also had a hand in bringing it about) so that they now for all intents and purposes rule over the region.
As long as resources are being extracted, it makes no difference if Orban loves or hates trans people.
The crux here is that the Germans, the Austrians, and the Dutch never believed that Eastern Europe is capable of self-governance. For centuries, their explicit goal was to control the region and plunder its resources.
Hitler’s idea to make Lebensraum by killing most Slavs and saving some to be slaves didn’t occur to him in a vacuum. It’s the results of around 200 years of orientalism.
Push in or push out, they can’t do either because the EU is explicitly structured so that Eastern counties are less powerful
It's structured in such a way that smaller countries have less influence. Gain a couple dozen million additional citizens, gain weight.
Also, you may remember quite a few decisions where Poland/Hungary were blocking decisions that needed to be taken unanimously.
I did always find the semi-cozy UK/FR/DE circles (now just FR/DE) a little off, because indeed they did indicate that the EU mattered less than the trialogue (now dialogue). Half point for you, I guess.
The EU and the United States took advantage of the fall of communism (and also had a hand in bringing it about) so that they now for all intents and purposes rule over the region.
Pretty sure (parts of) Central/Eastern Europe could have stuck to the SU/RF. Did any of those countries want that? I can only answer from my slightly GDR-tinged perspective that people really did want to be part of "the golden West". (Later duckups throughout the 90s not withstanding.)
As long as resources are being extracted, it makes no difference if Orban loves or hates trans people.
Sure, companies just love to lower their costs by outsourcing. If it was legal to go to North Korea and they could be sure their investment wouldn't just vanish one day, they'd set up call centers there. It's capitalism (and to a degree, human nature). I wish it didn't work like this, but it always does.
However, with HU and the EU, this certainly is not a one-way street and Orban's Hungary in particular has been adept at extracting public money from the EU and funneling it into corrupt structures. All the while demolishing the media landscape, justice system and propagating xeno|homo|transphobic ideas. Much of this goes directly against contracts with EU that Hungary voluntarily signed.
The crux here is that the Germans, the Austrians, and the Dutch never believed that Eastern Europe is capable of self-governance. For centuries, their explicit goal was to control the region and plunder its resources.
Is there any recent mainstream/influential politician in any of these countries who said any of that? At least in the German political landscape, I have never seen anyone articulate this kind of contempt.
Hitler’s idea to make Lebensraum[...]
You might want to remind yourself that the EU is not even close to being the second coming of Nazi Germany.
While I applaud your honest attempt at a discussion, I should tell you that your words fall on deaf ears. This is a very common view in Serbia that the "west" is, and always has been, against us and that the evil west literally doesn't do anything besides thinking up new ways to subjugate eastern europeans. If you say that nobody cares, they'll point to events from 100+ years ago, if you say that some states are voluntarily cooperating with the rest of the world and happy with it, they'll say that they're slaves. If you say that absolutely everyone around Russia wants to stay the hell away from if, they'll say how at least under Russian influence we won't "biologically dissapear".
You can't reason with unreasonable views. I don't know how to deal with these people, but spare yourself the frustration and at least don't hope that you'll change their oppinions with reasonable arguments.
The EU is structured so that smaller countries have more influence. They have the same rights, get the same representation in the councils and more seats per population in the parliament.
Thats so horrible that they where annexed by the EU. But why are they not as brave as the britisch and leave the EU?
If the eastern countries were not run by prostitutes they’d split and form their own block.
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Well, you're Serbian, yes? You are not in the EU. And you do have CEFTA. And you've got that Open Balkan thing.
But you don't want just that, because it's small, yes? Same thing applies to the EU at a larger scale.
Thing is -- something that I usually point out to people from Germanic EU musing about how cool it would be if they could go break off into their own bloc -- is that none of the Germanic/Latin/Slavic blocs are all that large on their own. Individually, you've got something like the population of a Brazil.
I'm in the US, and we're expected to bypass the EU in population this century, and we're a lot more-politically-integrated. Even with that, we're the shrimp among the largest powers -- as China and India develop, they're gonna get a lot beefier in terms of clout than they are today, even if today they're poor, because they can leverage that population.
So if the EU says "okay, not only am I gonna stay somewhat politically-not-integrated at the bloc level, but I'm gonna split into a couple of blocs" and on top of that have a smaller population than anyone else even before the bloc pie starts getting cut up, it's gonna be tough to get enough population to have a lot of clout, I think.
I mean, that's an option, but I'm saying that it's inevitably going to impact the EU's position in the world.
Serbia wants to go into the EU because it has not other alternative. And there reason there is no alternative is because the breakup of Yugoslavia was orchestrated in such a way that the republics could never reunite. After the fall of communism in the USSR, the powers that be didn't want another socialist country to remain in Europe. But more than that, even if Yugoslavia managed to transition to a market economy while remaining a federation, the existence of Yugoslavia might have made countries like Bulgaria, Romania, and even Hungary, Belarus, and Moldova more eager to enter into some kind of a "southeast european block" than pursue a tough shock doctrine course of EU integration.
The EU will not survive the next 100 years. The countries are too different and the cultural and ideological faults are already exposed.
Germany has he/him pronouns.
Germany has neuter pronouns in German, and feminine pronouns in at least French.
Their own bloc… to be promptly subjugated by Putin?
Silly me, forgot Putin had magical powers.
You people amaze me with your hand waving of a tyrant despot who has legitimately shown he is willing to burn countries to the ground to expand his sphere of influence.
But yes, magic indeed.
That’s not what we’re talking about.
We’re talking about your implication that Eastern Europe is incapable of self governing and self interest and that it would just fall under Putin’s control if it weren’t under the EU’s control.
This shows a paternalistic attitude that is quite simply racist.
Is racism your go to argument for trying to invalidate others’ points? Really?
No, but I find this discourse in which Eastern European countries are incapable of setting their own politics and pursing their interests so they must be stewarded by someone (EU, America, Russia…) to be racist.
It isn’t that they must be. It’s that the larger powers around them will by default control the surrounding area, unless they suffer severe collapse.
The Roman Empire spanned all the way from the British Isles to the Egyptian desert once, and they held strong trade influence on the areas outside their direct control. It is the same here; the only question is who you would prefer to align with. The West, and the US/EU, or the East, Russia/China. That is simply the truth of geopolitics.
Well, let's see then.
Aligning with the West means drastic changes to your culture and way of life, otherwise, they won't give you money.
Aligning with Russia is stupid.
Aligning with China is best. China will give you money and investments; they only ask that you pay them back. I don't see China publishing bullshit "human rights indexes" as a pretext for invasions.
Furthermore, Russia and China are not part of the same block. China stands alone because it can afford to do so.
Ah, so you're just detached from reality. Thanks for the warning! Enjoy the block.
How exactly does aligning with the west change your culture and way of life?
Also, let's not forget that China is literally putting people into "re-education camps" for having the wrong religion.
Furthermore, Russia and China are not part of the same block. China stands alone because it can afford to do so.
Tell me you know nothing about politics, without telling me you know nothing about politics. Ever heard of a little union called BRICS? You should google it and pay special attention to what the C and R stand for.
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