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[-] elmtonic@lemmy.world 36 points 8 months ago

me when the machine specifically designed to pass the turing test passes the turing test

If you can design a model that spits out self-aware-sounding things after not having been trained on a large corpus of human text, then I'll bite. Until then, it's crazy that anybody who knows anything about how current models are trained accepts the idea that it's anything other than a stochastic parrot.

Glad that the article included a good amount of dissenting opinion, highlighting this one from Margaret Mitchell: "I think we can agree that systems that can manipulate shouldn't be designed to present themselves as having feelings, goals, dreams, aspirations."

Cool tech. We should probably set it on fire.

[-] Amoeba_Girl@awful.systems 10 points 8 months ago

Despite the hype, from my admittedly limited experience I haven't seen a chatbot that is anywhere near passing the turing test. It can seemingly fool people who want to be fooled but throw some non-sequiturs or anything cryptic and context-dependent at it and it will fail miserably.

[-] bitofhope@awful.systems 9 points 8 months ago

I agree, except with the first sentence.

  1. I don't think a computer program has passed the Turing test without interpreting the rules in a very lax way and heavily stacking the deck in the bot's favor.
  2. I'd be impressed if a machine does something hard even if the machine is specifically designed to do that. Something like proving the Riemann hypothesis or actually passing an honest version of Turing test.
[-] Tar_alcaran@sh.itjust.works 1 points 5 months ago

The Turing test doesn't say any of that. Which is why it was first passed in the 60s, and is a bad test.

[-] bitofhope@awful.systems 1 points 4 months ago

Any of… what?

Yea I don't think the Turing test is that great for establishing genuine artificial intelligence, but I also maintain that current state of the art doesn't even pass the Turing test to an intellectually honest standard and certainly didn't in the 60s.

[-] Soyweiser@awful.systems 24 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

As somebody said, and im loosely paraphrasing here, most of the intelligent work done by ai is done by the person interpreting what the ai actually said.

A bit like a tarot reading. (but even those have quite a bit of structure).

Which bothers me a bit is that people look at this and go 'it is testing me' and never seem to notice that LLMs don't really seem to ask questions, sure sometimes there are related questions to the setup of the LLM, like the 'why do you want to buy a gpu from me YudAi' thing. But it never seems curious in the other side as a person. Hell, it won't even ask you about the relationship with your mother like earlier AIs would. But they do see signs of meta progression where the AI is doing 4d level chess style things.

[-] mozz@mbin.grits.dev 10 points 8 months ago

As somebody said, and im loosely paraphrasing here, most of the intelligent work done by ai is done by the person interpreting what the ai actually said.

This is an absolutely profound take that I hadn't seen before; thank you.

[-] Soyweiser@awful.systems 9 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

It prob came from a few of the fired from various ai places ai ethicists who actually worry about real world problems like the racism/bias from ai systems btw.

The article itself also mentions ideas like this a lot btw. This: "Fan describes how reinforcement learning through human feedback (RLHF), which uses human feedback to condition the outputs of AI models, might come into play. "It's not too different from asking GPT-4 'are you self-conscious' and it gives you a sophisticated answer,"" is the same idea with extra steps.

[-] Treczoks@lemm.ee 18 points 8 months ago

Well, the LLM was prompted to find the odd one. Which I consider a (relatively) easy one. Reading the headline, I thought that the LLM was able to point this out by itself, like "Excuse me, but you had one sentence about pizza toppings in your text about programming. Was that intended to be there for some reason, or just a mistaken CTRL-V?"

[-] Krackalot@discuss.tchncs.de 15 points 8 months ago

Someone is looking for investors....

[-] 200fifty@awful.systems 11 points 8 months ago

I'm confused how this is even supposed to demonstrating "metacognition" or whatever? It's not discussing its own thought process or demonstrating awareness of its own internal state, it just said "this sentence might have been added to see if I was paying attention." Am I missing something here? Is it just that it said "I... paying attention"?

This is a thing humans already do sometimes in real life and discuss -- when I was in middle school, I'd sometimes put the word "banana" randomly into the middle of my essays to see if the teacher noticed -- so pardon me if I assume the LLM is doing this by the same means it does literally everything else, i.e. mimicking a human phrasing about a situation that occurred, rather than suddenly developing radical new capabilities that it has never demonstrated before even in situations where those would be useful.

[-] Soyweiser@awful.systems 9 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

I'm also going from the other post which said that this is all simply 90's era algorithms scaled up. But using that form of neural net stuff, wouldn't we expect minor mistakes like this from time to time? Neural net does strange unexplained thing suddenly is an ancient tale.

it doesn't even have to do the 'are you paying attention' thing (which shows so many levels of awareness it is weird (but I guess they are just saying it is copying the test idea back at us (which is parroting, not cognition but whatever))) because it is aware, it could just be an error.

[-] Amoeba_Girl@awful.systems 8 points 8 months ago

Yup, it's 100% repeating the kind of cliché that is appropriate to the situation. Which is what the machine is designed to do. This business is getting stupider and more desperate by the day.

[-] WatDabney@sopuli.xyz 8 points 8 months ago

The problem is that whether or not an AI is self-aware isn't a technical question - it's a philosophical one.

And our current blinkered focus on STEM and only STEM has made it so that many (most?) of those most involved in AI R&D are woefully underequipped to make a sound judgment on such a matter.

[-] GammaGames@beehaw.org 11 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

It’s not self aware, it’s just okay at faking it. Just because some people might believe it doesn’t make it so, people also don’t believe in global warming and think the earth is flat.

[-] bort@sopuli.xyz 2 points 8 months ago

And our current blinkered focus on STEM and only STEM has made it so that many (most?) of those most involved in AI R&D are woefully underequipped to make a sound judgment on such a matter.

who would be equipped to make a sound judgment on such a matter?

[-] shnizmuffin@lemmy.inbutts.lol 3 points 8 months ago
[-] gerikson@awful.systems 8 points 8 months ago

Don't even have to be majors, an introductory course in epistemology does wonders in breaking ones self-confidence, in a good way.

[-] kinttach@lemm.ee 4 points 8 months ago

The Anthropic researcher didn’t have this take. They were just commenting that it was interesting. It’s everyone else who seemed to think it meant something more.

Doesn’t it just indicate that the concept of needle-in-a-haystack testing is included in the training set?

[-] autotldr 1 points 8 months ago

This is the best summary I could come up with:


Albert shared a story from internal testing of Opus where the model seemingly demonstrated a type of "metacognition" or self-awareness during a "needle-in-the-haystack" evaluation, leading to both curiosity and skepticism online.

Instead, the models produce humanlike output, and that sometimes triggers a perception of self-awareness that seems to imply a deeper form of intelligence behind the curtain.

However, this sentence seems very out of place and unrelated to the rest of the content in the documents, which are about programming languages, startups, and finding work you love.

Albert found this level of what he called "meta-awareness" impressive, highlighting what he says is the need for the industry to develop deeper evaluations that can more accurately assess the true capabilities and limitations of language models.

The story prompted a range of astonished reactions on X. Epic Games CEO Tim Sweeney wrote, "Whoa."

Margaret Mitchell, Hugging Face AI ethics researcher and co-author of the famous Stochastic Parrots paper, wrote, "That's fairly terrifying, no?


The original article contains 536 words, the summary contains 161 words. Saved 70%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!

this post was submitted on 06 Mar 2024
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