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Do you consider The Fifth Element to be cyberpunk? (lemmy.zip)
submitted 7 months ago by Hammerjack@lemmy.zip to c/cyberpunk@lemmy.zip
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The futuristic city with flying cars at the beginning of the movie definitely has all the cyberpunk visuals, and technically Zorg is the head of an evil corporation. But the real villain of the movie is incoming force of evil/darkness. And the plot is resolved through the power of love. Even the President of Earth is actively trying to help do the right thing and save the planet.

While there are some great cyberpunk visuals at the beginning of the movie, I don't know if the themes are there to call this cyberpunk. What do you think? Would you consider The Fifth Element to be cyberpunk?

Here's a trailer. It's currently streaming on Hulu.

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[-] ricecake@sh.itjust.works 93 points 7 months ago

It's not a cyberpunk story, but it's a cyberpunk world.

[-] GrayBackgroundMusic@lemm.ee 8 points 7 months ago

Ooh very succinct.

[-] Kyatto@leminal.space 7 points 7 months ago

Simple and accurate, I agree with this.

[-] inmatarian@lemmy.world 45 points 7 months ago

TV Tropes calls it Cassette Futurism, which is part cyberpunk.

[-] sbv@sh.itjust.works 29 points 7 months ago

I wouldn't. It has a great dystopian setting, and the visuals are totally cyberpunk, but the antagonist isn't an embodiment of The System That's Grinding The People Down (I don't think? It's been a while since I've seen it). Also, the government has a degree of power, and isn't corrupt/defanged by evil corps.

I also think of cyberpunk stories as operating on smaller, human scales (e.g. the stakes in Blade Runner are personal), whereas the Fifth Element deals with THE DESTRUCTION OF THE PLANET EARTH. I think. It's been a while.

Having said all that, lots of people like it, and if you will enjoy it more if it's cyberpunk, then I agree, it's 100% cyberpunk.

[-] Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world 18 points 7 months ago

While I agree with your other points, I'd argue that Jean-Baptiste Emmanuel Zorg is part of the system grinding people down, and the government is pretty feckless.

To the first point, Corbin Dallas is fired from a taxi company run by Zorg. He's the head of a massive conglomerate that does everything from taxis to weapons sales.

To the second, while the government does have power Zorg also has a bug (literal and technological) in their war room, which shows while they might not be subordinate to Zorg the government isn't powerful enough to prevent this sort of thing. Also, the government ends up failing in their mission to save the planet.

However, there's also magic in the universe and, as you said, they're saving the earth from destruction and not overthrowing Zorg, so I wouldn't call it cyberpunk.

[-] sbv@sh.itjust.works 10 points 7 months ago

Totally fair. It's been a long time since I saw the movie.

To the second, while the government does have power Zorg also has a bug (literal and technological) in their war room, which shows while they might not be subordinate to Zorg the government isn't powerful enough to prevent this sort of thing. Also, the government ends up failing in their mission to save the planet.

There's an interesting question here. IMO government's loss of control is a big part of cyberpunk, because it kinda/sorta shows people have lost power to corporations.

I was going to say that governments are usually absent/background in cyberpunk, but then you have Deckard (Blade Runner) who is employed as a cop.

But whatever. It's a genre, so there are no rules, only commonalities.

[-] GregorGizeh@lemmy.zip 2 points 4 months ago

I know this is a very old thread, but cops being essentially legalized corporate forces empowered by law is also very cyberpunk.

I dont think it is fleshed out if the government in blade runner isnt actually a corporate puppet that exists to create the legal framework the corpos behind it desire, especially if it turns out the blade runner and alien universes are one and the same as ridley scott suggests.

In that case the government would be subservient to weyland yutani, who are nonchalantly able to deploy government military personnel as they see fit.

[-] sbv@sh.itjust.works 1 points 4 months ago

Both are good. From a genre perspective it shows that corporations have taken over. I like the idea of corporate militaries, but corps influential enough to tell governments what to do hews closer to reality.

[-] TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world 6 points 7 months ago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XL_Iq57hIB8

Here is a good cut list comparing the 1981 version and the more recent version.

Consider some other cyber punk classics that are contemporaneous with the older version: Akira, Ghost in the Shell, Robocop, and Bladerunner. The older version hits many of the same beats story wise, especially with Bladerunner and Robocop. They have that very crime-drama/ film noir styleing, that the source material very much so has. Also, the original I think does show System Thats Grinding People Down, and the corrupt/ defanged system by corrupt cops. For example, Corban has to bribe a cop to get any services in the original, is turned into a cop refusing to act until he gets his McDonalds served to him in the more modern version.

I personally consider the original to be a cyberpunk classic that actually helped form/ shape the genre, but like many genre defining pieces, it doesn't actually perfectly fit what the genre becomes. I mean you figure bladerunner comes out almost two years after the original fifth element comes out as a short in the Heavy Metal movie.

[-] sbv@sh.itjust.works 4 points 7 months ago

I didn't realize it was a remake of a Heavy Metal short. Thanks for the link!

[-] fmstrat@lemmy.nowsci.com 1 points 7 months ago

You'd probably like the most upvoted answer if you haven't seen it.

[-] qjkxbmwvz@startrek.website 21 points 7 months ago

Been a while since I've seen it, but one thing that I'm remembering differently than a lot of folks in this thread is that I don't remember it being outright dystopian. Sure, evil corp and all. But Earth government isn't really evil, the arts are still cherished, and while life seems hard it seems more like a dysfunctional society than a dystopia. Just my take though (and doesn't address OP's question).

My fun anecdote is that maybe 10 years back I got a free LaserDisc player. The local library happened to have The Fifth Element on LD, so naturally I rented it. You had to request media at the front desk, so I wrote down the call number and he returned with a very confused look

"you know this is LaserDisc, not DVD or Blu-ray? Like, it's...really big." Not the same quality as Blu-ray, but was definitely more fun :)

[-] marcos@lemmy.world 16 points 7 months ago

What kind of punk restricts themselves to "punk rules"?

[-] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 12 points 7 months ago

Gimmedacasshhh

[-] Bz2486@lemmy.world 9 points 7 months ago

Negative, I am a meat popsicle

[-] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 7 months ago

Please place your hands in the yellow circles

[-] Jayb151@lemmy.world 6 points 7 months ago

That's...a... very nice hat.

[-] aeronmelon@lemmy.world 4 points 7 months ago

"You like ittt?"

dances

[-] Simulation6@sopuli.xyz 9 points 7 months ago

Not a lot of cyber in it, more just sci-fi.

[-] aeronmelon@lemmy.world 7 points 7 months ago

CyberPop

[-] CorrodedCranium@leminal.space 5 points 7 months ago

I typically view cyberpunk as a world dressing that acts more as a backdrop and I think The Fifth Element fits it pretty well.

I feel like the rest of it kind of just layers on. Kind of like the game Cloudpunk. It's set in a futuristic dystopian world that reminds me a lot of Blade Runner but feels a lot like a mystery and adventure game. The cyberpunk aspect doesn't feel like it's the most notable part.

[-] Tiltinyall@beehaw.org 2 points 7 months ago

This is a very fair take on the whole genre influence thing. More aesthetic similarities yet less story mechanics that are found to define genres. Let's give open creativity a chance before we stick some label on that produces low effort drudgery.

[-] CorrodedCranium@leminal.space 5 points 7 months ago

Exactly. It reminds me of high versus low fantasy. I feel like when other themes are mixed in it makes the story feel more familiar and the world more grounded. It's definitely possible to have cyberpunk out in front and above all else but I prefer when it isn't forced into that position.

[-] Hammerjack@lemmy.zip 5 points 7 months ago

Very true. Just like there's high fantasy vs low fantasy, there's almost a "cyberpunk by aesthetic" and "cyberpunk by themes" distinction in cyberpunk.

[-] Album@lemmy.ca 4 points 7 months ago

One of my favorite movies. I really don't consider it cyberpunk but I also wouldn't say it's not. It's got a lot of the aesthetic theme and it's dystopian but it's not got much else.

[-] TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world 4 points 7 months ago

I think it definitely is, especially if you go back to the original Heavy Metal source material. Its just a very 1970's/ New York portrayal of what Cyber Punk can be. The original material is also very much more in the film noir/ crime drama vein, which also aligns with some older cyber punk classics like Ghost in the Shell, Robocop, Total Recall, Bladerunner, etc.

The 90's version is brighter and more up beat than the 1970s version, but are actually pretty close overall. My assessment is totally cyberpunk, just not the narrow view of what cyber punk actually is. Its story hits the right beats and the world is the right size, shape and feel. I think both the original material and the new material are very much cyber punk.

Here is a youtube video comparing the elements of both the 1970s Fifth element and the more recent one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XL_Iq57hIB8

[-] Toneswirly@lemmy.world 3 points 7 months ago

Its more sci-fi fantasy if i had to pick a genre

[-] Kolanaki@yiffit.net 3 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

I dunno... It shows off the actual government and they actually seem cool? (I mean they are actually trying to stop evil and the president shows compassion towafd his people) The only corporation we see is Zorg, and they don't seem to have the kind of control typical of a corporation in a cyberpunk setting. It certainly doesn't seem like a dystopia. Maybe if the government was in league with Zorg it would have.

But I also don't know much about the world outside of it shown in 5th Element and Valerian. The setting is, apparently, from/inspired by a book/comic series; though I don't remember what it is called. I think the cigarette thing is a bit of a fucked up nanny state idea. Gives you a preset number a day and they're like backwards from real ones with a long ass filter and a tiny little bit of tobacco.

The story itself certainly is not cyberpunk. It's science fantasy.

[-] Rolando@lemmy.world 2 points 7 months ago

I'm just here to say when I saw this as a kid, I had a massive crush on the President's Aide.

[-] TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world 2 points 7 months ago

Is that the total number scenes they are in?

Like, so specific...

[-] Professorozone@lemmy.world 2 points 7 months ago

My vote would be no. Just straight up sci-fi.

this post was submitted on 13 Apr 2024
129 points (93.9% liked)

Cyberpunk

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What is Cyberpunk?

Cyberpunk is a science-fiction sub-genre dealing with the integration of society and technology in dystopian settings. Often referred to as “low-life and high tech,” Cyberpunk stories deal with outsiders (punks) who fight against the oppressors in society (usually mega corporations that control everything) via technological means (cyber). If the punks aren’t actively fighting against a megacorp, they’re still dealing with living in a world completely dependent on high technology.

Cyberpunk characteristics include:

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