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submitted 6 months ago by iJustGhost@lemmy.ml to c/fedora@lemmy.ml

I've been using Arch as a daily driver for years and love it's customization level, then I realized I just want an OS that works. I need tips, advice, or even warnings before moving.

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[-] jrgd@lemm.ee 14 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

A few things Fedora centers itself around:

  • Wayland-oriented Workstations
  • SELinux support OOTB
  • BTRFS as default filesystem
  • General attitude toward using close to bleeding edge packages as defaults
  • Package order of Fedora rpm repos, Fedora Flatpak -> RPMFusion, Flathub -> copr -> external installation
  • Immutable variants of Fedora exist for the major desktops


Fedora generally prides itself on being a Wayland-focused and oriented workstation distro. There is still active support for desktop environments/window managers that run on Xorg, but you should consider moving toward a Wayland-supporting environment (Gnome, KDE, Sway, Hyprland).

SELinux (a Mandatory Access Control system) is enabled by default and has pretuned policies installed that should support most use cases out of the box. SEApplet is a useful utility to find active SELinux denials in case an application is getting permission denied issues for seemingly no reason.

If you intend to use BTRFS as your filesystem of choice and want to utilize it to its fullest (encrypted partitions, subvolume encryption, automatic snapshots), it is best to read up how BTRFS and subvolumes work before partitioning so that your subvolumes will be correct the first time. It can be tedious to edit subvolumes, move their contents, and remount portions of the filesystem after they have already been populated.

I'm sure you're used to how things on Arch with bleeding edge works, and understand that on Arch you should always read patch notes before updating. Generally, updates on Fedora are fine to just push through. It is worth generally reading what is new when performing system upgrades to a new version of Fedora, I have noticed occasionally in over five years of usage the first target release of a new version of Fedora can sometimes have breakages that tend to get fixed within the next couple of weeks. There is extensive testing for system upgrades that can be openly viewed, but the testing doesn't always catch everything before a new release.

By default, the best way to grab packages on Fedora is from the official repos or from the Fedora Flatpaks. Barring that or if you aren't satisfied by a default package for whatever reason (some stuff in default repos doesn't have ffmpeg support or others due to codec licensing issues), you can add the second-party RPMFusion repos or add Flathub to grab additional or alternative packages as well. If those avenues fail, you might be able to find someone maintaining the package you need or want to test on Copr, which is essentially like Ubuntu's Launchpad PPA platform. Barring all else, you could manually install a given application externally, though obviously this typically isn't the best solution in most cases. Some cases where you might want RPMFusion packages are for things like audacity-freeworld, which includes proper ffmpeg support for Audacity. This package comes from rpmfusion-free. Or you might want something like akmod-nvidia to install the proprietary NVidia drivers or steam to install Steam. These packages come from rpmfusion-nonfree. Also, if you are not familiar with Flatpak, it might be worth becoming familiar with how it works (Flatseal is an excellent application that lets you modify how certain Flatpaks are sandboxed).

Immutable variants of Fedora (Silverblue, Kinoite, Sway Atomic, Budgie Atomic) also exist and provide an immutable base image that won't typically get modified across boots. Most of the custom user installation of programs is intended to be installed via Flatpaks (Fedora or Flathub) or through using toolboxes to create sandboxed environments for certain workflows. If you absolutely need to rebase the system image with extra utilities, rpm-ostree is available to modify the system package selection, though this method is not recommended to just be used to install everything (needless rebasing of the immutable image defeats the point of using an immutable distro). Obviously these spins aren't for everyone, but are there for those who want to use them.

[-] boredsquirrel@slrpnk.net 4 points 6 months ago

Fedora has Rawhide (bleeding edge), future branched release (currently 40 with Plasma 6, GNOME 46 etc), current release (39) and old release (38).

If you stay on the old release, and upgrade short before it is EOL, you will have a way more stable system.

[-] Guenther_Amanita@feddit.de 11 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

I used the "normal" Fedora (Workstation and KDE spin) for years and now moved to the Atomic variants.

Especially uBlue is fucking great, as it is just the default Fedora Atomic with some tweaks and QoL-changes. It basically "just works" ootb and maintains itself.
You can take a look at Bazzite if you're into gaming for example.

It's also very customisable, but you have to learn a different approach.

I personally would give it a chance if I were you, but beware, you have to learn a new workflow

  • You don't install software to the host directly, but with containers, e.g. Distrobox or Flatpak
  • You can still install packages directly if really needed (e.g. drivers), but it is largely not recommended
  • It's pretty much unbreakable
  • And much more.

See my post about it for more information: https://feddit.de/post/8234416

I personally strongly prefer Atomic to the mutable version, but that's my taste. If you prefer the traditional variant, then go for it. In that case, you don't need to know anything particular, it's nothing special :)

[-] iJustGhost@lemmy.ml 2 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

You got me excited with this Bazzite, damn I didn't know this thing exist.

[-] Guenther_Amanita@feddit.de 5 points 6 months ago

The cool thing is: you can rebase to any other Fedora Atomic variant if you want with one single command, which feels like a clean reinstall, but you keep your settings and data.

Pretty neat if you want to get the newest rolling release feature from rawhide, then rebase to KDE and then an Ubuntu clone.
You can also make your own images from skratch with the uBlue builder :)

[-] boredsquirrel@slrpnk.net 3 points 6 months ago

Ostree is crazy

I remember when I learned about it, and barely understood it, but already knew, this is the future.

[-] boredsquirrel@slrpnk.net 2 points 6 months ago

Its better SteamOS

[-] barbara@lemmy.ml 6 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

You have to expect not getting 80 updates per day. It is very hard to see no updates and not being able to update anything knowing that there could be hundreds of updates

Before you move, use a second drive or so such that you can always fall back if you decide that it's not what you want.

I can highky recommend atomic fedora but fedora is already a good distro on its own. It's still all linux.

[-] canis_majoris@lemmy.ca 6 points 6 months ago

I love me some Kinoite.

[-] boredsquirrel@slrpnk.net 2 points 6 months ago

With Rawhide you actually get 80 updates per day. But only devs and testers should use that.

[-] shrugal@lemm.ee 4 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

Well, first you'll need a nice hat, it's not optional...

[-] iJustGhost@lemmy.ml 2 points 6 months ago

Is neck beard optional? Please say yes.

[-] shrugal@lemm.ee 2 points 6 months ago

I think that's decided upstream.

[-] deadcatbounce@reddthat.com 1 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

I have Fedora Workstation (rpm) as my daily driver and use console ArchLinux on a sdcard for daily backups and rescue etc, so it's in daily use too.

Expect:

  1. Much slower bug fixes and updates. Fedora has an organised new kernel testing weekend, not point updates, before they are released to stable. So the first release of a kernel is .3 or something. Arch releases the new kernel fairly quickly, but not as quickly as it used to!
  2. Bug reports are processed much slower. Same reasons.
  3. Reversing out problem packages is much easier in Fedora. Typically three kernels versions are kept. Arch is much more flimsy but it's getting better over time. It's still my go-to rescue distro because it's 'clean' - there is not much downstream fiddling on the original source code ( like in Debian etc ) and excessive soft-dependency lists. Fedora does introduce some excess dependencies IMHO.
  4. Fedora is more user friendly. dnf options are well documented and the dash-dash long form options exist. dnf seem to be moving to subcommands too. Pacman really is mainly single letter options which are difficult to remember, and I'm always looking at the arch-wiki Rosetta webpage far more than I should.
  5. I haven't installed ArchLinux from scratch for a couple of years, but there's not been a grub2 layer that I can remember. Fedora is still depending on grub long after it was necessary or useful. Things are much slower to change in Fedora. The secure kernel isn't really as advanced on Fedora compared to ArchLinux.
  6. I'm a rolling release fan because 'updating' 2000 packages at once, a la Fedora, seems a recipe for problems. That said, my fears aren't justified: I've only really had one system-upgrade problem with Fedora, and I've been using it since FC4 - not always continuously.
  7. I've always installed Fedora (and other distros) from the base packages not using an installer. This time I've installed SELinux. The miriad complaints I've seen about it are not justified. I had an issue with a change to the Fedora SELinux policy tripping a fail; I was impressed and the solution was offered by the setroubleshooter. A user generated problem (ie me) trying to put a systems unit into the /etc/systemd/system directory puzzled me for a while until I realised what I was doing that it didn't like. Again easily fixed and there are plenty of documents about.

You could probably summarise those as Fedora is corporate run and ArchLinux is user collective.

As I said Fedora is my daily driver and I have tried to operate with ArchLinux as my daily, but it was a while ago and too fragile then. ArchLinux is my thin Rescue distro. I wouldn't be without either.

[-] boredsquirrel@slrpnk.net 1 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)
[-] some_guy@lemmy.sdf.org 0 points 6 months ago

What a thoughtful and complete answer. Thanks!

[-] boredsquirrel@slrpnk.net 1 points 6 months ago
[-] iJustGhost@lemmy.ml 2 points 6 months ago

Me too confused on this one, maybe it's a bot?

[-] boredsquirrel@slrpnk.net 1 points 6 months ago

Nah I dont think, I think its just supposed to be under some other comment

this post was submitted on 22 Apr 2024
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