the math has already been done. we pay more for less care in the united states than places with universal health care.

health insurance companies only profit by denying claims. profit only comes when humans suffer.

Congratulations, you just figured out how healthcare works in the rest of developed countries

And preventive medicine makes us live healthier for longer, making sure we can keep sustaining the system and reduce the amount of more complex and expensive care needed.

Entrepreneurs and small business would benefit tremendously. More people could follow their ideas and dreams as small business owners and entrepreneurs, and boost economic output and innovation. All are hindered by this surfdom.

I had my own business and my health insurance was crazy expensive and had a terribly high deductible. Ultimately I went back to being an employee. Then back to contracting with terrible excuse for health care. The compay I’m contracting for will lose me as soon as I land a job with good healthcare, so they’re effected too and they’re not small.

Anyone who is not for universal healthcare is anti-small business, the economy, the countries’ innovation and security in the global economy, and the people.

That would be logical and we don't do that here.
Stop that.

Same applies to housing the homeless, but benefiting society isn't the point. It is not enough to win, someone else must also lose.

We have health care in Canada yet still lots of street homeless people. They aren’t getting adequate care at all, yet the cost of caring for them exceeds the average person by many times. Many of them are on a first name basis with all the paramedics and other first responders due to how often they’re taken to the emergency room.

Well… that just sounds like socialism to me; so now we’re friends.

How does that help the shareholders gain more wealth to hoard though?

Yes, that’s how it works in many countries.

Not having preventive health care if like having a car, hear it make too many strange noises and not fixing it until it breaks and you end up on the side of the road upside down. You "didn't spend money" in minor fixings but you end up paying a lot more.

As someone in the final stages of a masters degree in healthcare management and economics:

Almost. It doesn't entirely cover the costs (at least from the data we have available worldwide, which is somewhat insufficient) but a focus on mental health(which always includes workers rights, women's rights and a few more social issues that create long term health problems on a massive scale) and prophylaxis in general is FAR cheaper than what most industrial nations currently do.

We do have a few issues that are not addressed in these concepts (e.g. end of life care and costs associated with that, new types of personalised medication, accessibility in rural areas,etc.) that still make a healthcare system like that something society has to pay for...But it does improve things massively, especially the quality of life of people that are not the actual patients.

That's how you can see the true nature of the system. It isn't designed to maximize production, it is designed to subordinate production.

I bet the benefit of free school lunches would also pay for itself. And there's been studies that show that funding early childhood education has a huge ROI.

But that's not how things work here.

Imagine how much we could save on policing if we didn't have outbreaks of mental health issues and shootings.

Just kidding, don't think about that, back the blue. /s

how are we going to know we're better than other people though, this is the most important thing.

TBH the bigger problem is, even if we did have full funding, we just don't have the necessary amount of trained physicians. There would still be a backlog.

I'm just here to agree. Also, people could stop self diagnosing, which is a whole other thing.