Do you really think that's a fair assessment of what "MAGA" have been doing for the past 8 years? Maybe the last 4 years, but they were hardly saying such things when their boy was in office.

Actually, I don't care. What I really want to know is what your point is? "They do it, so it's okay if we do it?" They are, for the most part, a bunch of reactionaries. Trump's base is largely uneducated, lower-middle-class white Christians who don't understand why liberals are radically deconstructing Western civilization around their ears and are terrified of the Brave New World liberals are ushering in. They are reacting out of fear, panic, and resentment towards a cultural elite that considers them ignorant rabble that needs to be told to shut the fuck up, rather than educated -- and often it appears that the cultural elite doesn't want to explain itself because whenever it tries, it's so obviously intellectually bankrupt that even the uneducated rabble can see right through it.

Shouldn't you be better than that? Isn't that your whole premise? That you're smarter than them?

The question was glib nonsense. It's not about how one reacts to any individual thing Trump does, especially not when that thing is itself a reaction to the larger context of the liberal/left reaction to Trump's mere existence.

what I didn’t say - and what I was clearly referring to with that quote you’ve pulled about me not saying a thing - is that I don’t view them as human, as you insinuated I said. if that’s your interpretation, you are incorrect.

I said "You’re utterly incapable of even considering people who disagree with you as fully human." What I meant is that you see them as "actively proud of being gullible, stupid, victims to their celebrities," which portrays them as less than fully human. You are viewing them as caricatures of people, not as people.

i doubt it too, because there is a constant fundamental disconnect between what conservatism purports to be and what it actually practices. I doubt it’s possible for you to explicate it either in a way that isn’t immediately contradicted with the actions taken by your leaders and community, too.

Conservative ideology emphasizes the preservation of traditional institutions, values, and practices, advocating for a cautious approach to change. It values individual responsibility, limited government intervention, free-market economics, and the protection of personal freedoms. Conservatives often stress the importance of maintaining social order, national security, and a strong sense of community and cultural heritage. They believe that established traditions and institutions are time-tested and should be upheld to ensure societal stability and continuity.

Any contradictions are likely explained by a liberal's misunderstanding of the concept of personal freedoms, which is best understood as the freedom to act within the bounds of moral behavior. Because conservatives value sanctity and liberals do not (see Haidt), liberals are often confused why conservatives can claim to value freedom while seeking to repress sacrilegious activities.

i’m sleepy so let’s wrap it up like you all like to do: This has been fun, thanks for taking the L.

When you have to declare premature victory, you are only making it obvious you can't defend yourself.

I’ve said and believe nothing of the sort.

So you didn't say "They’re actively proud of being gullible, stupid, victims to their celebrities?" Because it's right there on my screen and I was able to copy and paste it from your comment, which shouldn't be possible if you didn't say it.

this doesn’t surprise me at all. your entire political ideology would collapse if you didn’t unconditionally loathe someone.

You're projecting. It's your political ideology that is based on unconditional hatred. I doubt you could even begin to explicate the conservative ideology in broad strokes, let alone specifics. Like many liberals, you think conservatism is entirely an expression of bigotry and closed-mindedness. That is a deeply ignorant and self-congratulatory belief that people like you cling to because it prevents you from questioning your own ideology, and is, in fact, an expression of your own close-minded bigotry.

I actively try to remember there’s a real person with a rich internal life on the other end

Wow, You have really pulled the wool over your own eyes. You reduce everyone on the right to idiots who are proud to be gullible victims, and then pretend you try to think of your political enemies as people with actual internal lives? No you don't. Stop bullshitting yourself.

The policies that stop ICE from seperating families at the border? Trying to end the acts of throwing them in large metal boxes with no water, some dying, in 110 degree heat?

Are those Democrat policies? Is that what you mean to suggest?

Or are you thinking of other policies?

Yes, I was thinking about Democrat policies. And while it's true that separating families at the border is a policy that began under Obama, I think it's largely thought of as a Trump policy.

I meant policies like using mass immigration as a stop-gap measure to deal with the negative population growth caused by liberal anti-family values and embracing globalism to the detriment of American workers (which the right is also guilty of, but Trump is as much a thumb in the eye of the Republican establishment as he is the Democratic establishment).

Clearly, it's too call everyone who is voting for him a fascist, declare that democracy has fallen, and throw a temper tantrum in the middle of the street. Honestly, there's probably nothing that can be done at this point. After 8 years of histrionics over Trump -- four of which he wasn't even in office -- it would be almost impossible to change the right's perception of the left as arrogant, elitist, hypocritical crybullies.

Yes, basically. If you insist on calling every right-wing reaction "fascism," then yes, people broadly support "fascism" because they hate liberal progressives. Every single country where fascism has ever arisen, it did so in response to leftist agitation.

No, if he says "The sky is green," they don't believe him. They turn to watch your face as you meltdown over it. Nobody cares if he slept with a porn star and fudged some paperwork, they just care that it makes you spin out into this kind of nonsense.

These people today love him like a savior. Which I do not understand.

It's very simple. For the last 30 years, liberals have become more and more self-righteous, arrogant, and idiotic in the policies they pursue. You've all lost any ability to argue and defend your positions, relying on cheap tactics like name-calling to mock, deride and dismiss the right without actually defending your increasingly insane positions. You're all so far up your asses, so bigoted and condescending, that it has become impossible to have any sort of political dialogue.

They hate you, they can't reason with you, they can't even get you talk to them without calling them fascists and bigots, all while you ignore the harm your own policies are causing. Donald Trump is your punishment. The people don't love him a savior, they love him because he's a giant middle finger in your face, and it makes you throw a temper tantrum.

No, his base hasn't been manipulated. They like Trump for one reason and one reason only: He makes you gnash your teeth. Trump is their revenge on you for being such self-righteous arrogant dicks and cheating in the political process. The only way Trump could lose luster in their eyes is if you guys all stopped freaking out about Trump, which won't happen.

As a right-winger who doesn't support Trump, nothing liberals can do will make the Trumpets see "reason." They aren't voting for Trump because of "reasons." They're voting for him because he causes liberals to have a meltdown and drives y'all crazy, and they absolutely fucking hate you and want to watch you stress out and get aggravated. The only way the lib left could make the reactionary right reject Trump is by reacting to him like sane people, which y'all are incapable of.

But the Democrats only care about maintaining the status quo at all costs.

Isn't that the same thing as caring about power and whatever it takes to hold onto that power? The Democrats are representative of the liberal establishment, which controls the bureaucracy, the culture makers, social media, etc.