141
‘They will vote against Harris’: Arab Americans in Michigan desert Democrats over Gaza
(www.theguardian.com)
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 14 Oct 2024
141 points (79.7% liked)
United States | News & Politics
7167 readers
743 users here now
founded 4 years ago
MODERATORS
I don't get this. 3rd party will never win. Ever. There are two real options. Vote for the one that offers the best outcome for you. Not doing that is accepting that you are ok with the worst of the two, because you had a chance to keep them out of office and choose not to.
People are voting third party because you believe there are only 2 real options.
Gotcha, we should vote for Claudia De La Crúz.
Both Trump and Harris are the worst options, that's why we are going against them.
How is voting for her the best option. Literally all she can do is benefit the Republicans by pulling votes from the Dems. Hell, in Georgia they've literally ruled that votes for her won't be counted even though she's on the ballot.
Her winning the US Presidential election is less-likely than winning the power all 25 consecutive times by finding the winning ticket on the ground at random truck stops in Malaysia.
context matters. you have no idea what state many people live in. I, for example, live in a reliably blue stronghold. harris will win no matter how I vote. so I don't vote for democrats when when there is a better option on the ballot.
There is no value in voting for a party that doesn't support my values/interests. I personally don't like many of de la cruz's policies, they are poorly constructed, however I think she likely has a better moral compass and backbone than harris does. I'm giving harris until the end of the week to fix her positions on khan and ideally irsael, but i doubt she will so she wont be getting my vote.
Which policies do you believe are poorly constructed?
literally every single one she listed.... she's certainly not a unifying figure that socialism needs. she isnt dog whistling shes full throat fog horning and poorly.
good luck. that'll take years and won't fly for a lot of people. nor will it fix the problem. all its doing is triggering an immediate immune response from the unthinking masses. Nor does it address daily issues working american's are experiencing. I understand what shes going for, but she doesn't know how to accomplish it effectively.
sigh... same problem as above. removing the FBI and NSA will have little to no material impact on working americans.
yeah okay. again get what shes going for but non of that can be accomplished without a supportive congress. What to over throw the system? great I'm right there with you. but have an actual workable plan.
sigh. so completely cripple our economy, and trade one relatively friendly genocidal country for two unfriendly genocidal countries. sounds like a great plan.
sigh reparations, i get it i really do. but its just another aspect of the race war and sadly black americans are not yet populous enough to pull it off. could just as easily have said 'build a social safety net to support working americans'
again great cause, but lacks the acume to identify the levers to pull to make it a reality.
sigh. again just isolating herself from many american's who believe in capitalism.
So you just don't like Socialism, I guess?
incorrect, Im a socialist. she just doesn't know how to be effective at getting the change we all desire; and I doubt she'll be good as a president. shes hurt and angry and lashing out. she should run locally for a governor position and prove she knows how to develop and build worker run cooperatives before trying her hand at the national stage.
the first step is following khan by breaking non-competes, then provide support and resources for worker run organizations.
For clarity, PSL is a Marxist organization, not a Syndicalist or Social Democrat org. As such, she is not individually picking policies based on being "hurt and angry," but Marxist analysis along party lines. The goal of Marxism isn't worker cooperatives, more on that in the article Cooperative Property Is Not Socialist (bad title, the point is that cooperatives are not Marxist).
Additionally, PSL is a revolutionary org (again, it's Marxist), it isn't trying to reform the system, but overthrow it entirely.
You're attempting to make a distinction that is immaterial to the end result, as your own article admits. like i said shes more than welcome to run, she just won't get any support which is what she needs. destruction for destruction sake doesn't work, nor does it ensure the end result.
like I said, I suspect Claudia has a back bone, what revolutionary doesn't? she is just doomed to failure because she doesn't know how to conduct a revolution and will be unable to gain support because she refused to find levers to pull and instead just swings a hammer, because shes hurt and angry. If thats your jam by all means vote for her, but be aware ignoring the facts i just presented makes you just as blind as harris is. :)
She isn't doing destruction for destruction's sake.
You have yet to explain any of this.
absolutely is unless there is a plan to replace the system. hence all of my original points around her lack of coherent plans that address actual needs of the people. breaking the current system without sound ideas on how the new system will operate is destruction for destruction sake. You don't tear your house down without a alternative place to shelter. but keep waving your flag on the hill, I'lll bring you a picnic basket and chill with you. =)
I dont need to, those are my opinions you can take or leave them as you will. or just watch the election play out and get your answer. =)
You read the party platform of PSL. PSL has coherent plans.
That isn't what's happening.
You keep arguing against strawmen.
That's fine, you just have no coherent plans for establishing Socialism.
you're welcome to link to resources. I checked out her campaign site it wasn't interesting and i explained why each point will fail. I dont particularly care to spend my time beyond that digging to decide if she was is worth my time, determined she isn't. The campaign site is incoherent as far as plans go. if you want to goal post shift to PSL in general feel free to do so and i'll tell you what i think but otherwise. 🤷 if you want support you need to do the effort to earn it. ;)
PSL is DemCent, the party platform is her platform.
quick scan looks like a non-starter for me but good luck! anything where economy is centrally managed is a horrible idea, and something marx got very wrong its essentially what we have now just with a different person in charge. 🤷
What a fantastic way to say you have no idea what Marxism is, nor how Socialism is different from Capitalism. Consider reading Why Public Property?
Central Planning is the only way forward.
because I dont give a shit about marxist. its mostly nonsense. he identified the root problem but failed to understand human nature or how to build robust economies/systems. just because you're blinded doesn't mean every socialist is as foolish. centralized planning is what we have today in late stage capitalism, and its what caused communist societies to collapse under the corruption then foster. like i said good luck in your idealistic vision it'll never work because its inflexible and misses the point.
For a few reasons.
If you have no red line in the sand, then that gives the Dems free reign to do whatever they please.
It helps boost PSL's platform, which is revolutionary, and therefore important to get new members
If she gets more than 5% of the vote, then PSL gets better ballot access and public funding
It helps delegitimize the electoral system.
"Everyone I disagree with is a Russian bot," what a classic zinger