cross-posted from: https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/30986085
Poor one out for all your LGBTQ+ homies in America, they're about to be hunted for sport.
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Yeah, man, great point. I mean, I was going to say that it was the campaign's fault for prioritizing getting Republican votes over leftists votes, like when they promised to appoint Republicans to the cabinet or did campaign events with Liz Cheney and Laura Bush, that split the left from the party and made them not want to turn out. But now that I think about it, you're right; it was devisive memes that cost her the election, not the decisions of a national political party with billions of dollars to spend. Great point, dude, great fucking point.
Anyone with the slightest sense of empathy or self-interest should look at Trump and think "It would behoove me keep that out of power."
OK. Then why are you blaming the left? If it's basic human decency to vote against Trump, why aren't moderate Republicans Harris was campaigning for responsible for this loss? Why do you demand the left elect your politicians out of sense of empathy, even though the Democrats don't want address the issues that are important to them, but these moderates that the entire campaign was tailored to aren't held to the same standards? Why do you expect more decency from the people you ignore than the people you campaign for?
Simple, because those are the people it should matter to. Those are the people with the most to lose. Those are the people who are more likely to have LGBTQ+ friends and family. The moderates don't give a shit and should never have been catered to in the first place, but these people tossed aside the people and things they claim to love in order to make a stand. That's why I expect more from them, because they're in a position to be more hurt by it.
Oh, I get it now; you're fucking entitled. You're entitled to the progressives' support, even if they have to support a genocide they find morally reprehensible. You're entitled to the time they spend standing in a poll line, even if their a poor, hourly worker that's giving up a shift to be there. You're entitled to their vote, even if your party doesn't earn it. Well, maybe someday you'll also feel entitled to competent party leadership that can turn out the fucking vote.
"Wanting people who are supposedly on the Left to vote against fascism is entitlement"
Yeah, that's about the tune that's been played for the past year or os.
No, wanting one specific group to save you from fascism, even though you offer them nothing, is fucking entitled. You want the God damn left to show up and bail your asses out every god Damn election, but you never want to offer them a God damn thing. We don't even have the numbers yet, so we have no fucking clue how many progressives showed up for Harris, but this sub is already filling up with folks whose first (and only) move is to punch left. The Democrats want to try to win by exclusively chasing centrists' votes? Then go blame the fucking centrists when you lose. Or better yet, blame the party, since it's literally their God damn job to win elections.
That we refuse to save?
I'm sure you have a great screed ready about how both sides are the same, but considering that one side just won, you shouldn't be bothered in the least.
You want to be pandered to, and think that's what involvement in an election is about, not the exercise of political power by the citizenry. You had power. You did nothing with it. You stood by as fascism swept into stronger positions. And you fascist-enablers absolutely deserve a share of the blame.
Have fun with yourselves, Zentrum.
Oh, I had the power to stop this? Really? Cause I fucking voted for Harris, even though there was a 0% chance my state would go red. What else did you want me to fucking do? Vote harder? I'm not a god Damn political party that spent $7 billion this election, and I don't get to dictate the Democratic strategy.
I actually don't think both sides are the same, but you're welcome to go through my comment history and check that. You won't find any both-sides comments, but you'll find a lot of comments like, "Harris needs to distance herself from Biden's position on Gaza," and, "campaigning with Republicans is going to depress progressive turnout." But again, I'm not the God damn DNC, so I didn't get to make that choice. I do have to sit with the consequences, but I'm not going to sit with the blame.
It's this fucking simple; you don't want to, "pander," to the left? Then don't assume the left is going to save you. And if you are going to pander to the center, you better be able to win with the fucking center.
No, you aren't at fault, then. But fascism-enablers who refused to vote and beat the "BOTH SIDES ARE THE SAME" drum absolutely are, and playing defense for them is inexplicable.
Then the Democrats certainly had plenty to offer the left. It's just that the left decided it wasn't enough.
I would put this differently - if you need to be pandered to, you aren't treating your political power seriously - or worse, you're treating it selfishly. As political agents, every voter has the power to sway the election, some small amount, towards or away from their own ideals. If one says, "I'm not going to pick the side closer to me because it doesn't give me enough asspats or fuzzy feelies", they're treating politics as a personal and spiritual experience, not an actual, practical exercise of power.
Wow, this would be a great point, except voting isn't mandatory, or a federal holiday, and mail in voting is restrictive in many states, and sometimes people have to wait hours in poll lines, and leave work early, and find people to watch their kids. You're not asking to check a box, you're asking them to sacrifice time and even money to show up for you, and if you're going to do that, you have to motivate them. And if you're first reaction this morning isn't to be angry at the party for failing so spectacularly in motivating people, but instead to yell at fucking return2ozma, you're really showing what you really think.
Yes, I'm sure those were the motivations of many of those people who spent large amounts of time and energy beating the "BOTH SIDES ARE BAD" drum and cast their vote for the PSL or Greens.
I guess "not living under a fascist regime" isn't very motivating for them. Very curious.
My first reaction this morning was to be angry at the American people for giving 70 something million votes to Trump. My second reaction was to be frustrated that the Dem political machine snatched defeat from the jaws of victory again. Everything past that is just reacting to things as I see them, and seeing Ozma pissing about on here was quite visible when I finally opened up Lemmy.
Who casted the vote for Greens and PSL? Those are a drop in the bucket to the clusterfuck of votes for Trump.
If all Green and PSL voters went for Harris, she still loses in every state.
I wanted Harris to win but damn.
Yeah. Majority of the blame goes to non-voters. But the people on here were definitely calling for voting, just not against fascism.
I can blame non-voters too. They saw what was coming and didn't do anything. I voted Harris in California, she was never at risk of losing my state. I even skipped an all republican blanket primary as both were supported by trump or his allies.
But Lemmy had no say in the election, even if all the users here voted third party in North Carolina. No matter how much a Tankie says "Both sides" they can't influence the population like that.
Reddit thought it could get Ron Paul nominated and Bernie to win. Lemmy has even less users, and reddit didn't affect anything there.
No say is an exaggeration, but I was expecting this to come down to a small number of votes in a small number of states. While, practically speaking, the chance of that being within the range of Lemmy's userbase, much less the Lemmy userbase in that state, is small, it is not impossible. But it wasn't even close.
I was prepared for the electoral college to disappoint me like this, but not the American electorate. Fuck's sake.
I honestly was thinking Harris won the popular vote, EC took a while to decide. Instead it was rapid evidence of "Holy fuck, I hate being right about bad things."
Yeah, I'm still waiting to see any of these reactions, but I get the impression it's just gonna be you punching left.
I don't expect a lot of replies from this dude. He's a milquetoast liberal who thinks genocide on both sides of the equation cancel out.
I consider myself progressive and I voted for Harris, but when you say
I would assume some of those progressives that stayed home, just might not believe that the DNC would help them. I know it sounds crazy knowing history, but people feel how they feel. Especially when they see LGBTQ+ rights get rolled back, or companies quietly taking back pride month gear. If people look for who is fighting for them and can't find that in a political party, they won't vote.
We can argue that the LGBTQ+/GAZA/ or any other situation with a DNC win would be better than a trump win. But if that message isn't getting through then the problem lies with the DNC.
Stop going after the centrist vote. They are just not that into you.
So then why didn't Biden step down in time to have a real primary instead of ignoring issues and having the DNC run a candidate whos never won a primary delegate from voting? That would have very much helped keep Trump out of power. Or is the most powerful man in the country immune from the same critisicm you give the voters who had to take time off work to even show up?
They should've, yes. And yet more than half of this country did not.
I urge you to think more critically about why this happened. The margin by which we lost cannot be attributed to a few leftists making memes.
The margin lost by, along with the strong campaign run by Harris (the people complaining are the people voting Dem), and Trump's DISASTER of a debate, makes me think nobody could have beaten Trump.
Centrists have flocked to Trump as the "strong" candidate, they're low information, they have short memories, and they just want someone they can easily trust/blame for their economic issues.
Not only that, but trans "issues" are in Republican favor when they use scare tactics and not just a questionnaire. They went hard on that in ads because they know it works.
No, 2008 Obama ran a strong campaign. Inspiring voters with a message of hope and change is strong campaigning.
Going on the View and saying you would do nothing differently than Biden, when Biden was so unelectable he had to be replaced immediately before the convention and when 60% of the country thinks things are on the wrong track, is not strong campaigning.
She never differentiated herself from Biden, she ran immediately to the middle, and she campaigned with unpopular Republicans. She chose to represent the status quo and voters rejected it.
I would urge you to remember that this post itself is a meme. Of course "a few leftists making memes" isn't the root cause, it's just one that I personally witnessed swaying people and that particularly pisses me off.
And yes, the Dems could've and should've done better, but I would like to be able to believe that people are smart enough to not commit suicide by apathy, and I feel justified in being pissed off at those who dragged the whole country down by failing to show a little self-preservation instinct.
I feel justified in being pissed off at people whose first reaction to all of this is to blame the left. Because y'all do this after every election we lose, and learning nothing is how we go on to lose the next election.
Blame the people who voted for Trump. Think for a minute about why they did, and then think about what we can do differently next time.
Not learning is what will drag the whole country down.
Why do that when we can blame nebulous leftist memes they 0.005% of voters saw? Obviously that's the cause of a massive failure of messaging and policy making.
"Do our candidates suck in a popularity contest? No, it's the voters who are wrong."
We're fucked with Trump because they think like this.