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Anti-NATO protest in Montreal erupts in fires, smashed windows
(toronto.citynews.ca)
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this post was submitted on 24 Nov 2024
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Those young people are being manipulated by Russia! We need NATO.
Organizers and people arrested should be put on a plane and given a tour through Ukraines east.. to see with their own eyes. Too many people seem to be unaware why a counterforce to Russia was created in the first place.
Arguing against NATO for the reasons they state just means more people will suffer like the Palestinians do.
Haha, no.. the USSR made themselves go bankrupt and caused the country to devolve until it was no longer viable all the while genociding their own population. You've got some revisionist history on your shirt.
I don't know why you say this. NATO has been supporting Israel, not Palestine
Because they're able to see the forest through the trees. It's why refusing to vote for Kamala was cutting off Palestine's nose to spite its face.
Disbanding NATO wouldn't do anything to stop Israel and would increase Russia's genocide of Ukrainians as well as imperil the entirety of Europe.
That was not my point. NATO is a stabilizing force. If you remove it, Russia and others will just go on the war path and more people will suffer..
I acknowledge the suffering of the Palestinians and think that needs to stop. In the past I argued that the war crime angle against Netanyahu should be picked up by the icc.. and now they ruled there is enough evidence to issue an arrest warrant.
But NATO does not support these atrocities. Countries in NATO do.. but how does the NATO organisation do that?
This seems to be of the same mold as "the UN does not do anything but talk" yeah.. the UN is a talking organisation.. that's their goal.. keep people in dialogue and serve as a platform to hopefully have member countries do stuff.
NATO is a defense alliance.. member countries not actively doing something against Israëls agression does not mean that it would be up to NATO to do something.
I'll try to put things into some historical perspective, as briefly as I can.
NATO was supposed to be a stabilizing force against the Soviet Bloc. During the cold war that was the rational.
Some claim that it was a tool to confirm and maintain US military hegemony and I tend to agree with this take. After approx 1993, through its interventions this started to be more and more obvious, especially to those living in the global South.
When did NATO go to war outside the Iraq war? I seem to have missed that.
NATO didn't go to war with Iraq, the coalition of the willing did. NATO got involved later on with a mission to train the Iraqi army but that's a footnote, also, not actual combat.
Afghanistan was a NATO war, triggered by the US invoking Article 5. NATO also intervened in Yugoslavia. Everyone was pretty much genociding everyone there, massacres left and right, but the Serbs had a disproportionate amount of military resources and were able to do systematic genocide which prompted the intervention. And please for your own sanity ignore anything Chomsky has to say about the thing he's still calling concentration camps refugee shelters. "CIA says something so the opposite must be true" brainworms.
Ok. Let's see where this goes:
Was there a genocide, organised by Serbs, against Bosnians. Yes or no.
And just for the record, yes, I'm trying to get you banned for genocide denial right now. This is a trap. Go on, do your worst.
Yeah that's right.. thanks.
Why "outside the Iraq war" you dishonest fuck? That alone is a pretty good example of how shitty the NATO is. The US have undue power in NATO vassal states due to them empowering fascists and killing left-wing politicians. I even had some of yee jingoist fucks try to defend Gladio lmao. Litteral terrorists.
It's not a benevolent alliance between partners, it's a vassal-overlord relationship, a protection racket and a subsidy to their weapon industry. Do not forget who empowered the russian fascists or the talibans in the first place.
Why do I only hear that kind of thing from Americans with their penchant for exceptionalism, or vatniks.
You could see just how much control the US has over NATO by the amount of states telling them to pound sand when it came to Vietnam, when it came to Iraq.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-National_Force_%E2%80%93_Iraq
NATO is literally in the "Allied" column lmao. Fucking liar.
NATO went in by request of the Iraqi government, to train their army and police. In 2004. The coalition of the willing invaded 2003. You're on the wrong wikipedia page.
What certainly can't be denied is that many countries who did participate did so to crawl up the US's arse. But that doesn't mean that the US is controlling them, it means that the US has a comfortable asshole.
Reagan, and the Pakistani ISI, respectively.
Well that's a constructive answer, and not even a good one. Maybe spend a little less time in your echo chambers and look at all factors of conflicts instead of US bad.. rest is irrelevant.
Shut the fuck up you jingoist twat. Shove your NATO into your butthole. As an european I want us to stop sucking that american cock like little submissive cunts.
I mean, the US have a law nicknamed the haag invasion act. In any other situation, it would be an act of war, but dutchies are little cowardy idiots they like to deepthroat uncle sam's dick.
That's the thing with atlantist turds. They all like to jerk off on nationalism until Biden's in town and then it's all "gimme your massive american mantwat daddy".
I think you are a troll..and a badly mannered one at that. Arguing against pax americana just means you have not been paying attention the last 50 years.
I'd nuance all this.. with it could have been better, the 1st world did a lot of nasty things and and and.. but under a USSR victory.. everyone would have been way more fucked.. just look at the hellholes that modeled after the USSR and evolved from there.. but yea.. all the US's fault amirite?
Tell that to the people who had family butchered in Bucha, or the soldiers that came from Russian imprisonment looking like WW2 concentration camp survivors with horror stories about their abuse at the hands of Russians.
War is horrible, but supporting a country filled with people that do not want to be Russians is not a bad deed.
Even the people in the occupied territories.. all that we need to negotiate.. how did that work out for the world? Not standing up to tyrants just means they will do more. So as long as Ukranians say they want to fight Russia to defend their autonomy we have a moral and ethical obligation to give them what they need to win.
But thanks for wishing death and harm upon me and my loved ones.
Edit: thanks moderator :) his posts were over the line.
Is the post-1993 thing NATO stepping in to stop genocide in Yugoslavia?
Source?
Some 'members' of NATO may be...
But NATO has absolutely nothing to do with Israel or Palestine....
Here is NATO
https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_52044.htm
You think Turkey is on Israel's side?... You're a goof....
My source for NATO supporting Israel come from NATO's site. Here are a couple of examples:
NATO Secretary General: “Israel does not stand alone”
Or "indirectly" by claiming in a joint press conference by NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg and the US Secretary of State, Antony Blinken
Yes, those are US bootlickers stating their verbal support, but NATO cannot participate in Palestine because to deploy NATO forces article 5 must be invoked by a member country and it must be in response to an attack on said member country. That is the core principle of the treaty. It's a self defense treaty, of which Israel is not a part of.
If any country participates in the genocide of the Palestinian people, they do so of their own volition and not at the behest of NATO. Canada leaving NATO or NATO being dissolved would have no bearing whatsoever on the Israeli genocide. The shared NATO membership may foster relationships and cooperation on extra treaty operations, but these are not NATO operations. To be a NATO operation, it has to be an article 5 operation or some operation mandated by the UN, and while the latter has happened, it was highly controversial that it did, as it was beyond the scope of the NATO treaty.
This protest demonstrates a fundamental misunderstanding of what NATO is or how it works and ultimately even if they got what they wanted, which they won't, it wouldn't have accomplished what they were aiming for. The fundamental difference between a NATO operation and an operation of NATO member countries not consecrated in the treaty, is that the former is required to remain in NATO and the latter is completely voluntary.
NATO has stopped all cooperation with Israel because Turkey has vetoed it: https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/turkey-blocks-nato-israel-cooperation-over-gaza-war-sources-say-2024-08-01/
NATO doesn't.
Some of its members do. These are not the same things.
Europe need it not Canada and it should be 100% run by Europe
Because Canada has no reason to be concerned about Russian aggression? Isn't literally right next door to them? Doesn't regularly intercept russian incursions into Canadian airspace? Has nothing to be concerned about regarding the NW passage and Arctic expansion?
Straight up Russian propaganda you're selling here.
Sure, Ivan.
Because Russia has zero ambitions to conquer the arctics?
Tankie
Alliance members get to decide who's in their alliance. Nobody's preventing you from expressing your opinion, but it's pointless.