this post was submitted on 09 Apr 2025
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ELI5 this for me, I'm not even on this sub but whatever.
Everyone loves Messi, the dude takes a metric shit ton of forbidden drugs because he has a medical issue, wins a WC and competes because everyone recognises and accepts a medical condition is an acceptable reason to have exceptions.
Then, enter trans athletes. They have a medical condition, they take drugs to remediate the fact they were born in the wrong body, they win because the karma for the immeasurable amount of suffering they endure is being good at a random sport. Everyone dislikes that and calls it cheating.
I'm not an ally or anything. Being in the EU and seeing the fandom of Messi, can someone please explain to me why that cunt of a tax dodger gets an exception and Mary from down the street, who just won the district football competition, and wants to live her life in peace, is called a cheater.
Just make it make sense, and while you're at it, explain why the fuck is this a discussion that permeates the airwaves almost weekly.
They don't do it because they think it's unfair, they do it because they dislike trans people and don't want to phrase it in a way that is outwardly offensive
I'm the USA, it's just another we hate the others. Others being anyone not a white Christian. Trans people are just a very small minority that most people that support trump can't relate to because they don't know any in their rural community. Typically trans people can't live in rural areas because of either a lack of doctors that will provide them care or the lack of facilities.
I see the same thinking when these Trump supporters demonize migrant workers but them hire them to do work for them because they are some of the "good ones". Imagine that, the minorities you are exposed to are normal people.
"Fun" fact: here in Germany, xenophobia is strongest in those areas with the lowest percentage of inhabitants perceived as migrants.
People often fear and hate what they don't know. Larger cities are melting pots of lots of people with diverse backgrounds, and larger cities usually correlate with a higher percentage of inhabitants with progressive world views
The same happens in the US. Several of my old friends from high school lost their shit when they found out 200 migrant refugees were being brought to their town. Then they lost it again when I asked them what they were so afraid of. A month later when I askedihow their lives had changed at a result they had all forgotten that it ever happened.
One single word explains everything, really: transphobia
From what I've read, there is no evidence that Messi continued taking HGH after adolescence. He certainly has not received an official PED lifetime pass or anything. There are a bunch of rumors around him, and I'm no conspiracy theorist but I wouldn't be stunned if ALL pro athletes are on PEDs (I remember NFL insiders talking about how if you could test reliably for HGH you would have to ban half the league).
I will keep my other opinions about trans athletes to myself because the left does enough infighting as it is.
I'm gonna be killed for this, but is the number of successes the same for F2M as it is for M2F? I'm genuinely curious.
I'll gladly delete this if it's terrible.
I don't really follow sports all that closely, but it looks like there probably is?
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/athletes-assigned-female-transitioned-mens-sports/
Though honestly I can't think of all that many mtf athletes either, it's not like trans women are overrepresented in sports. Plus ftm athletes don't support the narrative transphobes want to push around "men invading women's spaces/sports" they tend to get forgotten in general, but especially in sports. There will be a lot of survivorship bias in how people perceive the success of trans athletes, any trans woman who does well will be seen as "unfair", but any who are completely average at the sport won't be noticed (or will be reported on misleadingly, like when Glenique Frank got 6,159th in the London Marathon and it was reported everywhere as "trans runner beats 14,000 women"). And like I said trans men already get ignored, so their inclusion in sports is definitely not being spoken about to anywhere near the same level. All of that combines to make trans women seem overrepresented in high level sports and trans men basically nonexistent but that's not really accurate.
No clue, nor am I inclined to use time to find out.
At the end of the day, it really doesn't matter. Success at sports is not only dedication, it's also luck in the genetic lottery, regardless of the sport.
I believe I'm an outlier in this thought, I think that segregation between male and female sports make no sense.
Well if you don't do the segregation you will find that in some sports almost no afab people will ever reach the top.
Some sports are of course worse than others in this regard.
And even if there is no physical barrier, historically male dominated sports struggle to find female athletes/players. See for example chess.
How would you solve this?
It's not something that needs to be solved. It's sports. Tax sports income at 90% above 1M a year and watch it stabilise.
What has this to do with income? It's also amateur leagues that would be affected.
Less concern about winning, more concern about being inclusive and having fun? Sign me up for that shit.
Well for many winning and trying their hardest to win is the fun in sport :/
So go do that then. Complaining about the quality of your opponent is not good sportsmanship. Just try your best and see who wins.
Where do I complain "the quality" of my opponent? I am trying to understand their viewpoint with regard to non-segregated sports.
I've spoken to some athletes about this before -- women and men -- and I found the opinion that sports should be gender-segregated and that the decision of where trans-athletes should be able to participate in should depend on the specific sport in question.
In my mind good sportsmanship includes fairness and I want to figure out what is "fair" in this situation. Many reasonable people disagree in that regard I think.
I don't think there has ever been a high-level successful F2M trans athlete. At least not in any pro league I'm familiar with or the Olympics. I do think F2M (and women in general) should be welcome to compete in "mens" leagues (which are actually gender neutral it's just very hard for women to qualify).