Too often there is this separation we invent where misogyny is a ubiquitous tool of patriarchy while misandry is somehow separate. This becomes so intense that many are not even able to admit that misandry is even theoretically possible, and even if it's undeniable it is still seen as highly irrelevant to patriarchy.
But misandry does advance patriarchy and it is a force that intensifies misogyny.
Consider homophobia. This is an obvious case where misandry advances heretopatriarchy. Certain men can entrench their status through an infrastructure of hatred against homosexual men that can be accessed by nearly everyone else as well.
Consider transphobia. Another obvious realm where misandry is at play. Trans men are shown hatred in ways that are unique to the experience of cis men, and these experiences drive cis heteronormativity.
Consider how our actions and ideas impact the world. If we live in denial of misandry we live in denial of patriarchy. Denying misandry does not make you a quality feminist. It does not make you theoretically sound. Hating men just gets in the way of challenging patriarchy.
Consider how misandry enforces gender roles. Misandrous discourse functions to discipline people. When misandry is denied, there is almost always an element of "you have to man up, because women are weak." The narrative is familiar; women are subjected to patriarchal violence and are thus too hysterical to have sound or reasonable options about men, thus, men must internalize misandrous attitudes out of sheer emotional intelligence and masculine willpower. The men who fail to do this are weak, unable to maintain a rational, stoic attitude and are thus lesser, unmasculine men. Men who can master their performance of masculinity in a self-denying or sacrificial way will benefits from misandry but will certainly be thoroughly disciplined by it.
Women, other non men genders,and queer communities often play a role in policing masculinity for patriarchy which may obfuscate the patriarchal power at play. This ultimately reinforces misogyny by haphazardly enforcing binaries, devaluing feminity, and promoting a supremacist view of masculinity.
Let me paint a situation. Imagine a comedian making a joke about their trans wife; that she removed the worst part of her--being a man. Everyone laughs in support of trans women and implicitly they laugh AT trans men and cis men. Next joke is about how stupid bisexual women are for dating men, how they make the queer community worse.
Now imagine you are a man who wants a little clarity in life. How should you feel about such language which is clearly both misandrous and misogynistic? How should you feel that it is directed at you, as a man? I'll tell you:
You should feel safe because you are a man. If you don't feel safe it's because you are a weak man, incapable of performing.
Because "misandry" is not real.
Men are not oppressed just by being men. Whatever 'hate' men may experience for their maleness is totally irrelevant by every metric. Men aren't subjected to abuse, exclusion, violence, etc. on a social or institutional level by any serious percentage just for the 'crime' of being men expressly because being a man isn't a crime.
You are rewarded for being a man. You are celebrated for being a man. You are empowered for being a man. This is true at all levels of society and it's why we live under patriarchy - the rule of men.
You might be oppressed for some other factor - such as being gay or trans - while being a man and the nature of that oppression may look different from how women or enbies are treated but you will never be oppressed just for being a man by itself.
Masculinity is a cult of male worship. Men aren't excluded from holding power in the sexual hierarchy just for being men; they will be excluded on other grounds like race, class, sexuality, or how they express their gender (i.e. not conforming to the 'ideal' masculine standard).
Misogyny is prejudice + power. Misandry is just prejudice with no power behind it making it an irrelevant social phenomenon. If the worst thing a man can face for being a man is mean words then he is not oppressed by any conceivable metric. Misogyny is a real thing that actually harms and kills; misandry is not and does not.
You may as well be talking about 'heterophobia', 'cisphobia', or 'anti-white racism' because that would make just as much sense. You can't oppress the oppressor class.
I think a large reason why these conversations keep happening is that many people fail to grasp this point, and it results in people talking past each other.
Many take "misandry is not real" to mean that no prejudice or situation negatively affects a man for being a man. This is then contrasted with personal experiences of toxic masculinity, negative social experiences mostly unique to men, and experiences of feeling excluded from some circles due to being a man, etc.
Some men would then think to themselves "how could you say that 'misandry' is not real when I had all these negative personal experiences?", unaware that these experiences don't translate to a systemic form of oppression.
That's pretty much it in a nutshell.
Though I would say that I'm still somewhat sympathetic to people expressing points like OP because if you're not aware of this, then you feel like all your personal experiences and hardships are invalidated. Especially given that most of the time when people try to explain this point, it's done pretty aggressively and antagonistically. Can't say I would blame people airing their grievances against an oppressing force, but I can see how some people would feel victimised by it.
The antagonistic attitudes that some feminists demonstrate when talking about these issues is entirely understandable tbh.
Most feminists are women (obviously) and womens' opinions, perspectives, needs, wants, & feelings are regularly being dismissed by our patriarchal society. The lack of value in our words, thoughts, and experiences lead to regular abuse, abandonment, isolation, and gaslighting. This is doubly so for feminists - who expressly reviled & ridiculed often by the public & institutions alike.
Naturally this leads to frustration, bitterness, and hostility. We get tired of being mocked and ignored while trying to discuss the nature of our oppression, its origins, and how to resolve it.
I don't and can't blame feminists who are more confrontational. I know what their feeling and I get it. The onus is on men to start listening to women if they want women to talk to them about womens' liberation and gender equality.
Yes, like I said, I wouldn't blame them. What I mean is that, regardless of blame or finger pointing, the people caught in the crossfire are still affected by it.
This isn't talking about priorities, blame, or what issues should take focus on a systemic level. It's more on an individual level where I sympathise with the negative experiences they had and the feelings of social isolation that they go through.
At the risk of making a bad analogy, we could say that if someone stubs and injures their toe on a living room table, we should be able to sympathise with what they're going through without assigning blame to an inanimate object. The concern is not to find someone or something to assign blame to, but to help out the injured person and give them some support.
That doesn't mean that we would go on a country-wide campaign about the dangers of tables.
But this ultimately misses the point I am trying to express. I'm not talking about airing grievances. It's 2025 and I'm 35 years old. I hear the point you are making on a daily basis. Why is it so hard to have faith in people that maybe they have heard the point you are making and are trying to go further, instead of merely angry that a woman said something.
Also as I said above I don't believe that women are inherently powerless. The idea that misandry doesn't theoretically exist hinges on the observation that men have access to power women don't, but we all know women can and do build power. We also know patriarchy actually can empower women for its purposes. I haven't reread my OP since I wrote it weeks ago but I'm pretty sure the way I understand misandry is that it's directly related to and empowered by misogyny and patriarchy but I guess no one has much interesting to say on that. If you deny misandry you risk denying that power. You have to deny the power and agency that women have just to make them weaker than they really are and make men more powerful than they really are. I find this to be a concerning discursive feature of patriarchy that the hatred of women can be obfuscated by the valorized hatred of men.
Men are sent to war to get shot at, mutilated and blown to pieces en masse.
Most of the murder victims are male.
Male suicides are off the rails and no one gives a shit.
No one cares about male victims of pedophilia.
One in 3 domestic abuse victims are male.
People laugh at male victims of rape which is barely reported.
20 million of Soviet men which includes 80% of males born in 1920s died in WW2 for some idiot today to be able to wish death on entire gender.
Some of my male ancestors died in concentration camp while defending their country.
Wishing genocide on entire gender is probably not sexism according to you.
Fuck right off.
Edit: I remember you, you were the one who wanted to talk shit about Traoré and find his flaws, beside the fact that he's literally the best leader on the continent right now. Westerners really need to stay the fuck away from Africa, Muslim countries in general and serious topics such as feminism.
These are just men's rights talking points. Why exactly are you laundering them here?
I'm not sure where you saw that someone was "wishing genocide on an entire gender", but no - it's not sexism. You're missing the "systemic" part in all your arguments. You can talk all you want about how shitty the world is where men were the driving force of creating it, but ultimately that doesn't mean that anyone other gender has more systemic power than men. Them creating a shitty world does not equal sexism
this is a reactionary who was banned for transphobia, came back, then immediately doubled down. MRA shit is expected tbh
😭 & here I am taking them seriously
Never stop explaining
Why are we not doing perma bans for repeat offenders?
This is not the conversation I'm hoping to currate. Please reread my OP. This isn't a post that is feeling sorry for men rather I'm I'm exploring how the valorized hatred of men impacts discourse in a way that reconstitutes patriarchal norms and empowers misogyny. This is not to show apathy towards gendered misery but to keep a conversation about misogyny from becoming another cliche for misogynists. Don't be part of the problem.