this post was submitted on 08 Sep 2025
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Is Mormonism considered a form of Christianity here? Even with the stuff about planets?
It's Christianity+.
The plus is just extra craziness.
Jesus, the Mormons change their doctrine all the time, just like mainstream βChristiansβ. They have even backed away from the βstuff about planetsβ in recent years. They want so badly to be bland.
Christians don't change their doctrine.
I'm curious what doctrine you think has been changed? I'm a member of the church and can happily answer questions to the best of my ability.
I will agree that policy has changed over time (for better and for worse, it's run by a bunch of regular people and people make both good and bad decisions) but the core doctrine is pretty static.
There is no way I will engage with you on Mormon subjects. I was raised in that hateful cult and will have nothing to do with its current members. Frankly, most of them are profoundly ignorant of their own history beyond the official white-washed (like literally) versions.
You are free to use a search engine or go to the official church pages to find their press releases over the last few years.
The core doctrine is white supremacy, and there have been significant changes to the way that is portrayed over the years.
If you want a more substantial answer to your question about how the doctrines have changed, read "This is my doctrine" by Charlie Harrell. If you want a more detailed example of what doctrine is and how it changes, read "second class saints" by Matthew Harris. If you want even more examples, just read the BOM and see how doctrines in it are at odds with the D&C. Seriously - take the BOM at face value and compare it. It's wildly incompatible. Ignore the context of what you've been taught about the BOM. Read it like someone in 1828 would.
Even something like the doctrine of the atonement has fundamentally changed because Joseph Smith and Brigham Young both advocated for blood atonement (yes, Joseph did teach and advocate it). And the Adam God doctrine was literally taught in the temple. These two things alone show that even something as seemingly static as the atonement of Christ is anything but static within the history of the church.
Doctrine changes all the time and no one in any position of authority wants to take a firm stand on what it is because it's impossible to define. The reason why I use the atonement is to prevent (well intentioned, I'm sure) tbm's from using the motte and bailey fallacy: something that someone says isn't actually doctrine, according to you, (like Africans being descendents of Cain, for example) so you retreat to something more fundamental like the atonement. This is also similar to moving the goal posts.
At any rate, good luck with working your salvation out with fear and trembling. I gave most of my life to the church. I'm better now that I'm out. I'm much better now that I'm out. That's not going to be true for LITERALLY everyone, but you should at least be willing to give it serious thought.
Hey there. I don't know this history by heart, so I'll assume this Wikipedia article is fairly accurate: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_segregation_and_the_Church_of_Jesus_Christ_of_Latter-day_Saints
I'm hearing your argument as this: "The LDS church is essentially fine because the core doctrines are good. The bad things are merely policy, and it's okay for mere policy to change over time. That doesn't disprove the core doctrines."
I disagree. If the church's founder and high leaders advocate for legal racial segregation, using the church's authority as backing, then it does not matter whether we are talking about doctrine vs. policy or divinity vs. human fallibility. Whatever it is, it's a negative effect caused by the church as a whole.
And from a skeptic's perspective, this makes it impossible to have any faith in the LDS church. If the founder can be wrong about something so harmful, and if core doctrines can later be rejected as mere "policy", then really I should always be engaging my critical thinking. And if the human leaders can be wrong, then I have no way to be sure that they're right about any of the doctrine.
It sounds like the church still has a pretty strong stance against same-sex marriage and homosexuality: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexuality_and_the_Church_of_Jesus_Christ_of_Latter-day_Saints#Homosexuality
Whereas I believe gay marriage has majority support among typical Americans.
What are we supposed to make of this?
God comes down from Heaven and inspires prophets to build and run His church, but when His prophets are wrong about policy, wrong in a way that hurts marginalized people like Black people and gay people, God just lets that happen? In His name?
Religion should be an excuse to be good, not an excuse to be wrong.
If you draw a line around the LDS church and ask what goes in and out of that boundary, I see a highly-political entity that collects a lot of money and exerts control over people in ways that a good church would not do. I don't see innocent doctrine.
β οΈπ¨I FOUND ANOTHER MORMON ON LEMMY!!!!!!π¨β οΈ
There are actually quite a lot of Mormons on Lemmy. I stick around anyway because the majority of them have moved beyond the mythology they were spoon fed as youth. Those who have done that work are usually very knowledgeable about religion and have a lot to offer the discussions.
I would estimate that maybe 20% of the insightful and thoughtful posters or commenters in religion topics (English language) are Mormons who do not affiliate with the religion offered by the Corportation of the President of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
I wonder what happened to baldprophet.
So are you talking about community-of-christ mormons?
No, I am referring to the Brighamite offshoot in Utah with all the money.
They certainly offshot in Utah alright
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1978_Revelation_on_Priesthood
Baptists dislike Catholics. So of course they have a problem with Mormons. Just like they all have a problem with all other religions. Of the three brands I just named the Catholics are to me the most tolerant of others. Not that they are that tolerant. Mormans hide their intolerance with some fake happy smile but they are still just as intolerant. Especially to their own people.
Yeah, we're pretty generous about what counts. I'd argue most evangelicals aren't sincerely Christian either but whatever.
Wouldn't say "most", but a sizable portion. Same can be said about Roman Catholics.
I mean, if they believe Jesus was *Christ then that makes them christian yes?
Muslims believe that Jesus was the Christ.
If people say they are Christian then they are.
If a whole group does it then they are as well.
Iβd love the slippery road of allowing you all to insist the others arenβt true believers, though. The end result of that logic is a nice big tax bill for all of you.
Technically, "Muslim" means "one who submits to God". A Christian can say they are a Muslim with that logic.
Itβs the same God. Outside looking in, they are hardly much different.
If a Christian says they are Muslim then they are. Itβs all fake labels for worshipping the same fake being. Thereβs no rules here, just assholes.
I'm an Atheist, but of the plus one variety. I believe in one God. lolololol
Iβm sorry youβll have to explain to me why that was funny.
Christians worship money so much they put God on the dollar bill but they still claim to worship Jesus. So if youβre a Christian lying like that must come second nature, anyways.
I do what? I never knew I was worshipping money because some country put three letters on their currency
Sure. Tell yourself whatever you need to.
Wack. I never really cared that much about money. Maybe I'm not a true Christian because architect@thelemmy.club told me so on the internet.
Maybe. If your beliefs run totally counter to Jesus's teachings, then I'd say you aren't sincerely Christian. I don't think the people who preach the prosperity Gospel are real Christians. They just use the veneer of Christianity to hide what they really are.
Mate I'm sure there's a whole pile of things in the Christian bible that you don't follow. And I'm not even talking the gotcha things but like, actual teachings. Like, do you keep the sabbath? If you're a woman do you follow all of thine husbands commands? If not am I right to say you are not a sincere Christian? If not, what are you? No it can't work that way. If someone says they are Christian, they are Christian. You can say that Catholics are bad Christians, or that they're going to hell, but you can't say they aren't Christian, because then no one is Christian. That's what denominations are for.
That's like me saying I know you don't believe in God but you also murdered someone and I don't like that so you're not really an atheist.
Well, you're doing the thing where you're confusing fundamentalist Christianity with the entire religion.
Let's start with Jesus's teachings and go from there.
Now, obviously, no one upholds his teachings perfectly not even his own disciples. That's not the standard. But I do think a fair standard is that you not directly base your faith around hate and violence. Not if you want me to regard you as a sincere Christian. In the same way that just because you say you're vegan doesn't make you one if you eat steak.
I mean have you seen the Midwest?
Momos would say yes (a recent change), most Christians would shrug, some Christians would be offended that you would suggest it and say that mormonism is a heresy.
The ones who shrug probably don't know what mormonism is. Anytime I've told a Christian who didn't know, their immediate reaction was "WTF"
or they think they're talking with a mormon and don't want to get in an argument.
Undercover mormons....
Protestants say that about Catholics, they are both still Christian
That's a niche viewpoint. Even then a lot of the time it's rejecting Roman Catholicism as true. Or the common one "you can be a (Roman) Catholic but not a Christian" or at the most extreme (usually this person engages with strawmen) "There are Christians in the Roman Catholic Church, but they aren't really Roman Catholics"
So glad everyone is on the same page /s
I group Abrahamic religions thusly: Judaism, Christianity, Mormon, Jehovahs Witness, Scientology. But as murderface put it about religion: "It's all the same shit!"
Wait, Scientology? Scientology isn't Christian at all... is it? I thought it was sci-fi nonsense?
It is, but the texts are given from aliens in space, and in scientology bad thoughts and actions create engrams of the spirit, one man brought the teachings to earth, sunday services, collars, cross iconography... mostly intentional copy/paste from Christianity stuff, which was a lot of copy/paste stuff from Judaism (mixed with Norse paganism to spice it up!). Ooooh and the best part!? The drive to lure people in to the seats to spread the word, and punish all the naysayers at any cost!
It is, they just don't explain it to you like that until the mind control is active.
Somebody shoulds tells Murderface that it's not alsways-ways abouts him.
Thatβs a nice slippery road Christians really do not want to travel down.
I don't know about here on Lemmy in particular but I looked it up and found a 2011 Pew poll that gives some statistics: "Mormons perceive hostility directed toward them from evangelical Christians. Fully half of those surveyed (50%) say that evangelical Christians are generally unfriendly toward Mormons, compared with 21% who think evangelicals are neutral toward Mormons and 18% who say evangelicals are friendly toward Mormonism. Pew Research Center surveys show that roughly half of white evangelicals (47%) say that Mormonism is not a Christian religion, and two-thirds of evangelicals (66%) say that Mormonism and their own religion are very or somewhat different." It also says that "one-third of non-Mormon U.S. adults (32%) say the Mormon faith is not a Christian religion, and an additional 17% are unsure whether Mormonism is Christian."
They literally believe in multiple gods, though. At least Roman Catholics and Protestants worship the same God.