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According to videogame patent lawyer Kirk Sigmon, the USPTO granting Nintendo these latest patents isn't just a moment of questionable legal theory. It's an indictment of American patent law.

"Broadly, I don't disagree with the many online complaints about these Nintendo patents," said Sigmon, whose opinions do not represent those of his firm and clients. "They have been an embarrassing failure of the US patent system."

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[–] zrst@lemmy.cif.su 62 points 2 days ago (13 children)

Copyright and patent laws need to die.

Anyone who doesn't understand this is a useful idiot.

[–] QuoVadisHomines@sh.itjust.works 14 points 1 day ago (1 children)

No, they have utility as people shouldn't be able to rip off other teams work as that disincentivizes any product research , innovation or the ability to sustain yourself based on sales of your art.

The only thing idiotic is the notion that these systems need to die rather than be refined.

[–] dogs0n@sh.itjust.works 4 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I agree. The only big problem I'm aware of is the length of validity for patents/copyright (and how large corporations for years were getting the laws changed so their IP could last even longer).

After a decade or two, surely you have profiteered enough or at least had enough time to try profiteering from your idea or works? Time for public domain? 75 years (i think it is for copyright) seems crazy to me.

Me not experto though, but I do think lowering the time you can hold your invention or works hostage from the world would be amazing for the general public and advancement of tech (even though when I say that, it sounds like stealing a baby from a mother).

[–] QuoVadisHomines@sh.itjust.works 2 points 11 hours ago

For patents it is much shorter than copyright. Copyright being roughly the lifespan of the creator makes sense when you think George RR Martin has been writing Game of Thrones for 20 years before it appears on HBO. Under a shorter span you could have people selling fanfiction of works before their creators saw any real profit.

IMO what needs reform is that if the public invests in your research the state shoukd hold a percentage of the revenue from the sale of that good. The USA did this until Reagan.

[–] prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 60 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (24 children)

Current system is obviously broken, but you don't believe that artists and creators should have a right to control their intellectual property at all?

And yes, intellectual property is real whether you want it to be or not. And it's not necessarily about money, but about controlling what can be done with your work.

For example, Bruce Springsteen should 100% be allowed to tell Trump to fuck off and stop using his music at rallys.

What would be the mechanism to do that without IP?

[–] floquant@lemmy.dbzer0.com 23 points 1 day ago (3 children)

Personally I don't have an issue with individual intellectual property, it's the acquisition and trade of it by corporations that I have an issue with. For example, I believe no copyright should last after the creator's death. Disney is dead, Tolkien is dead, many musicians are dead, let alive creators contribute to their worlds.

[–] Adalast@lemmy.world 1 points 18 hours ago

I have a real issue here too. Though mine more centers around the purchase of IP to bury it because it would be competition. How many amazing creations that would benefit humanity and make all of our lives more livable are buried in archives at these big corpos?

This is what I would like to see fixed, in the most aggressive way possible. I want a clock on the ownership to bring a product to market based on the purchased patant and if that clock runs out, ownership reverts back to the creator.

[–] echodot@feddit.uk 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

That isn't the problem.

Copyright law does run out after a while it's not immediately upon the holders death but after their death there's a grace period and then the copyright runs out.

The problem is the likes of Disney get special treatment. Their patents should have run out long before any of us were born and yet they didn't.

The problem isn't the system itself, the problem is the abuse of the system.

[–] floquant@lemmy.dbzer0.com 13 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

No. The problem is that that system was created and lobbied for literally by Disney and other big "IP holders" like music labels. That "while" after the holder's death has been increasing to ridiculous levels. They are not getting special treatment by abusing the system, they're changing the system to benefit them. And don't be fooled into thinking this benefits bedroom musicians, it's quite the opposite. (source)

And don't get me started on how the US treats copyright internationally. The whole world has been effectively subjugated to incredibly ass-backwards rules without even a say in it. "If it's accessible via the internet it counts as officially published in the United States"? fuck off.

On the other side of the coin, we have agreements such as the Berne Convention, a 1886 document that still governs a good chunk of international copyright relations. Even the "good" parts of such agreements are terribly inadequate for the Information Age where works can be published and redistributed globally with little effort

Just an FYI, that graph is entirely unreadable in dark mode. I'm not sure why they chose to make a graph of all things have a transparent background.

[–] QuoVadisHomines@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Walt Disney wasn't the creator of most of his works so his death shouldn't be factored in.

[–] daniskarma@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (28 children)

I do believe that.

Intellectual property leads to all kind of unfairness. It should be normalized that artist would be paid for the work done, nor for property ownership.

This adds to some other believes about people shouldn't be paid just for "property ownership".

And once the art is done and released is part of human race, that does include terrible human beings, but it also includes absolutely everyone else.

Some other argument for this... For instance, being an artist is one of the jobs with biggest pay disparity, from the poorest of them all to some of the richest. That's a normal output of basing income on property ownership, things snowball once you have enough property.

I don't think there's a way to make private property (physical or intelectual) work in a fair economy. And remember, private property is not the same as personal property, just in case.

I do think the world of art would get much better and more diverse if we got rid of property as a way to measure revenue and put work in the center as a way to measure how much we should pay each artist.

[–] echodot@feddit.uk 3 points 1 day ago

People need to be compensated for their work, that may end up being an awful lot and probably in excess of what they need, but that's how it has to work. Any other system would just disincentivize people from putting in the effort, in fact it would force them not to because they would have to do something else in order to earn enough money to live. The precise opposite of your desired outcome would happen, the rich would produce endless amounts of content just to more money, and all the smaller artists would have to go and get a job in Costco or something.

The only way your idea would work is if we completely change the economic system and got rid of money. Which I'm all in favour of but I suspect is probably outside of the scope of copyright law.

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[–] bonus_crab@lemmy.world 3 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (3 children)

Intellectual property is a means of production after its released. It requires no further input from the creator, and so they shouldnt have a monopoly over it.

If the internet actually enforced copyright to the letter of the law, it wouldnt exist in its current form. No memes, no game streamers or videogame youtubers, no unlicensed music, no image sharing. Copyright needs to be defended to the best of the holders ability otherwise they lose it. It would necessitate a constant stream of scanning and policing and litigation thatd be so taxing on platforms theyd just shut down. Video game streaming operates in a legal grey zone because the law is flawed.

Theres a reason programming tools are almost all open source. From languages to libraries to software, the alternative is just too inefficient.

Copyright is an old shitty system from the days when books required publishers who had to register an ISBN for everything they published. The modern equivalent would be if every unique copyrightable contribution on the internet first required submitting the media to a government agency to store a hash of it and issue a UUID.

I wouldnt say that IP doesnt exist, but once you share information with someone, they are now also a holder of that IP, just by the nature of reality.

[–] prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

Intellectual property is a means of production after its released. It requires no further input from the creator, and so they shouldnt have a monopoly over it.

If the person who created it cannot profit from it, then nobody should be able to.

I think most artists would agree.

[–] luciferofastora@feddit.org 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

There should be a mechanism to reward artists for their work and enable them to keep creating, but without also allowing a system of vampires to control that mechanism and enslave them in a twisted web of dependency and power.

[–] Soggy@lemmy.world 3 points 1 day ago (1 children)
[–] luciferofastora@feddit.org 1 points 23 hours ago

That's what I was getting at, yes.

I genuinely believe it might not fix everything, but will go one hell of a long way to making a lot of things easier to fix.

[–] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago

Let's say you design a revolutionary widget of some kind, but don't have the means to to produce it at scale. How do you get it to market? You parter with a larger company. For a share of the proceeds, you have them produce the item. Without a patent, when you go to the manufacturer and show them the design, they can just start making it themselves and tell you to beat sand.

Also, patents require competitive companies to alter a product design in order to sell it. If everyone could just copy the same product, there would be further incentive to monopolize the means of production to produce the single product at a larger scale, since the only differentiation between products would be the price. Patents allow competition through limited-term protection of their innovations.

Is the patent system abused by large companies? Absolutely. But removing patents won't make them.good actors. It'll just remove any limitations on their theft.

[–] floquant@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 1 day ago

If the internet actually enforced copyright to the letter of the law

Whose law? Whose enforcers? The Internet is fundamentally incompatible with traditional sovereignty and jurisdiction concepts

[–] Doomsider@lemmy.world 3 points 2 days ago (14 children)

To answer your first question no.

Intellectual property is a societal construct and it is as real as racism is. Which isn't saying much.

If an artist doesn't want their music to be heard and possibly replicated, altered, or used in a way they don't like then it is their responsibility to never release it. Only by hiding it can they keep the world from misusing it.

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They don't seem to be protecting creators from getting their work subsumed by AI, so they're clearly not fit for purpose. But I do think there needs to be some protection for artists and creators, it's just that either the present laws are shit or the courts can be bought.

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