News
Welcome to the News community!
Rules:
1. Be civil
Attack the argument, not the person. No racism/sexism/bigotry. Good faith argumentation only. This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban. Do not respond to rule-breaking content; report it and move on.
2. All posts should contain a source (url) that is as reliable and unbiased as possible and must only contain one link.
Obvious right or left wing sources will be removed at the mods discretion. Supporting links can be added in comments or posted seperately but not to the post body.
3. No bots, spam or self-promotion.
Only approved bots, which follow the guidelines for bots set by the instance, are allowed.
4. Post titles should be the same as the article used as source.
Posts which titles don’t match the source won’t be removed, but the autoMod will notify you, and if your title misrepresents the original article, the post will be deleted. If the site changed their headline, the bot might still contact you, just ignore it, we won’t delete your post.
5. Only recent news is allowed.
Posts must be news from the most recent 30 days.
6. All posts must be news articles.
No opinion pieces, Listicles, editorials or celebrity gossip is allowed. All posts will be judged on a case-by-case basis.
7. No duplicate posts.
If a source you used was already posted by someone else, the autoMod will leave a message. Please remove your post if the autoMod is correct. If the post that matches your post is very old, we refer you to rule 5.
8. Misinformation is prohibited.
Misinformation / propaganda is strictly prohibited. Any comment or post containing or linking to misinformation will be removed. If you feel that your post has been removed in error, credible sources must be provided.
9. No link shorteners.
The auto mod will contact you if a link shortener is detected, please delete your post if they are right.
10. Don't copy entire article in your post body
For copyright reasons, you are not allowed to copy an entire article into your post body. This is an instance wide rule, that is strictly enforced in this community.
view the rest of the comments
There’s no right to magazine sizes. They have a right to guns. Give ‘em a bolt action with a 3+1 magazine. Still have a gun, right?
The 2nd Amendment specifies "the right of the people to keep and bear arms". I would argue that to be able to functionally "bear arms", one must be able to be in possession of the means to operate those arms.
The 2nd Amendment does not say "the right of the people to keep and bear bolt-action rifles, shall not be infringed". Instead, it states "the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.".
But this already isn't true. Even if I could afford it, I can't buy an F16, anthrax or a nuclear warhead. So, isn't this just about where the line is being drawn? The line itself both already exists and doesn't seem to be contested.
You very much can buy an F16 assuming you can find one for sale, a civilian owned company already bought 29 of them from Israel (Same goes for fully functional tanks as long as you fill out the proper paperwork)
Technically true, but it needs to be non militarized, can't purchase the missile mounts (or the missiles etc.). My point stands.
The jet isn't the weapon. It's the missles I agree.
Want people to change their mind, tell them Bill Gates/Elon Musk and such are starting a nuclear program. They'll want to ban it, they are arms after all.
"Musk is adding AI controlled weapons to Starlink" Immediate call for reform haha
I try to look at these examples from the perspective of the Non-Agression Principle -- to come to the conclusion that a specific technology must be kept from the public, it must be shown that that technology, by it's very nature of existence, infringes on the rights and freedoms of those around it. For example, if we look a nuclear warhead, as you mentioned, it could certainly be argued that it's private ownership would violate the NAP, as it's very existence is an indiscriminate threat to the life, and property of any proximal to it. A similar argument could be made for your other example of anthrax. Making a similar argument for an outright ban on the civilian ownership of a fighter-jet is much more difficult to justify, however. I would argue that it would, instead, be more logical to regulate, rather than prohibit, the civilian ownership of a fighter-jet, much in the same manner as the civilian ownership of any other typical aircraft.
It also should be noted that it entirely depends on wording/language. The 2nd Amendment specifically states "[...] the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.". One needs to have a precise definition for "bear", and "Arms". Perhaps it could be argued that an individual cannot "bear" a nuclear warhead. Perhaps "Arms" are only those used by the military, or other federal entities. I have no definite answer, but these are the sorts of things that one must consider.
Every constitutional right has limits. There is no legal use of a gun that requires a gun capable of holding more than 6 rounds. More than 90% of self defense situations end with only 2-3 shots being fired. Long, drawn out gun fights with both sides firing 20-30 rounds simply don't happen in self defense situations. It's just a fiction from movies. You certainly don't need that many rounds to bring down a deer. What high capacity firearms do allow is criminals to maximize the damage they do in a short period of time.
Asserting a negative - bold strategy. I'd be interested in seeing your support for such a position.
I frequently legally use standard capacity magazines at the shooting range, though, so you may have a hard time here.
Is this one of those Works Cited: Crack Pipe moments?
Ah - so you only care about mass shootings, the vast minority of firearm violence let alone homicide.
Generally, I would be inclined to say yes, but things become more tricky when the constitutional right in question specifically states "Shall not be infringed". That being said, the limits in question could certainly lie within the definion of "Arms", and "bear".
Don't forget the original intent of the 2nd Amendment (I encourage you to read the Federalist Papers, to hear it striaght from the source) was to ensure that the people have the capability to resist their own government. Without a populace who believes in it, and will defend it with force if need be, a constitution is no more than a piece of paper, and a dream. Pay close attention to the wording of the 2nd Amendment:
As well as how it would interract with what was stated in the declaration of independence:
It is important to remember that prior to the 14th amendment, the Bill of Rights was understood to only apply to the states, not the federal government. The 2nd when written was never intended to apply to the federal government. Another important distinction is the use of the term "bears". A person hunting deer is not "bearing arms". A soldier bears arms. It is a term specifically that refers to fighting for a state, not self defense or any generalized use of weapons. In short, the 2nd amendment was intended to prevent states from disarming militias in order to preserve the ability to assemble a national military. It has nothing to do with one person defending themselves against another.
You raise a good point about the 14th Amendment. I would argue that it even further enforces the idea that the states, individually, cannot create firearm legislation as it would violates the 2nd Amendment, which, in turn, violates the 14th Amendment.
While I do agree that paying attention to the exact terminology used is crucial to the Amendment's interpretation, from what I can see, the definition that you stated is not without contention.
I agree which is why we need a federal ban on high capacity weapons.
The roundness of the Earth is under contention too.
What is your rationale behind that statement?
Err, no it isn't. There is a difference between subjective disagreement, and denialism.
SO close to self realization.
Shall I assume that your snide remark indicates that you have no rationale?
LCM bans appear to reduce both the incidence of, and number of people killed in, high-fatality mass shootings.
https://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/full/10.2105/AJPH.2019.305311
3 round mag is a perfectly functional firearm. I own one. Works great.
Nobody’s infringing. When they wrote the amendment a single-fire cap and ball was perfectly acceptable as a firearm, should be good enough for today.
Applied slightly differently - When they wrote the amendment, civilians had complete parity with military - should be the same today.
Fine. Want to own guns? Say hello to boot camp. Some of those Gravy Seals and Tacticool LARPERs are gonna have a hard time.
I believe you misunderstand, perhaps intentionally. Civilians had complete parity - not army recruits.
As stupid as what you wrote is, funny enough you're on the right track.
I think a gun safety course taught in middle school with a refresher in high school will effectively end the gun debate and save thousands of lives.
Now you're not cool because you have a gun. Everyone has shot a gun.
Now you don't accidentally shoot your friend in the head because your found daddy's gun and started playing with it.
Now you're not deathly afraid of the thought of guns because you've shot one and realized it's just a tool like a car or chainsaw.
The 2nd Ammendment doesn't specify that one has the right to keep and bear arms that were made when it was written, nor any other arms specifically. It, instead, states that one has the right to keep and bear arms, in the general sense, and such a right should not be infringed. Any deviation from the general interperetation is an infringement on one's rights. One does have to think about what objects are themselves as arms, but this exclusive mentality is very different from an inclusive mentality.
The problem is that you're arguing that from a position of valuing keeping your toys that go pew pew real loud and real fast over valuing the general public safe, though.
Don't forget that the original intent of the 2nd Amendment wasn't for recreational enjoyment, or self defence, but it was, instead, to ensure the security of the state by being a sort of counter-pressure against authoritarian behaviour. Aside from that, however, I feel that this quote by Thomas Jefferson is appropriate:
Yes, and flintlocks are arms as well.
So give them access to those, and none other. So their 2nd amendment isn't infringed and the real deadly guns aren't being sold on the black market anymore.
The ruling in question highlights magazines are effectively arms and magazine sizes cannot be arbitrarily restricted, even when integral.
At the time the 2nd amendment was written they had muskets. Give them muskets.
This is false. The Chambers gun, the Girandoni air rifle, and other "high capacity" repeating arms existed and were known to the framers of the Constitution.
okay, those are fine too.
You realize "repeating arm" is essentially an AR-15? If you think the second amendment covers repeating arms like the AR-15 then what is your argument?
Cartridges didn't exist at the time of writing the 2nd. None of those guns used them and the authors of the 2nd had no idea such a thing would be developed. Rifling in firearms was a niche modification that required hand etching of the barrel and not commonly used nor available until the mid 19th century. The founding fathers had no conception of the reliability, accuracy, or speed of modern firearms.
The 2nd Amendment specifically says "the right to bear arms", not "the right to bear muskets".
It also says it's so you can have well regulated militias but the wording is vague about the link between the two.
In the context of the constitution, "regulated" means "trained". So rather than meaning a militia that is heavily regulated by the state, they're talking about trained people. Moreover, it was understood that the people that were being called up were armed with their personal weapons--not supplied by the gov't--and that they were going to be shooting on their own time.
The frames of the constitution intended the people to have access to military arms, to be training themselves in their use, and to be ready to use them at a moment's notice.
They opposed a standing military and police force for all the reasons that we've seen over the last (almost) 250 years.
So does the training include keeping weapons safely and not waving them around in provocation? Are there mental health standards to meet? Or does it just mean someone knows where the trigger is?
Interestingly enough, that was a legal obligation in the colonies; powder could not be stored in the house because it was an explosive risk. Currently, some states have safe storage requirements, but they're legally unenforceable.
That's called brandishing, and it's a crime by itself in most states.
Most training starts with safety, and progresses through basic marksmanship. I learned most of that from my father, grandfather, scoutmaster, and the RSO at Boy Scout Camp, and it's been further reinforced by every RSO at every range and competition I've been too.