324
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 19 Oct 2023
324 points (97.4% liked)
News
23367 readers
3135 users here now
Welcome to the News community!
Rules:
1. Be civil
Attack the argument, not the person. No racism/sexism/bigotry. Good faith argumentation only. This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban. Do not respond to rule-breaking content; report it and move on.
2. All posts should contain a source (url) that is as reliable and unbiased as possible and must only contain one link.
Obvious right or left wing sources will be removed at the mods discretion. We have an actively updated blocklist, which you can see here: https://lemmy.world/post/2246130 if you feel like any website is missing, contact the mods. Supporting links can be added in comments or posted seperately but not to the post body.
3. No bots, spam or self-promotion.
Only approved bots, which follow the guidelines for bots set by the instance, are allowed.
4. Post titles should be the same as the article used as source.
Posts which titles don’t match the source won’t be removed, but the autoMod will notify you, and if your title misrepresents the original article, the post will be deleted. If the site changed their headline, the bot might still contact you, just ignore it, we won’t delete your post.
5. Only recent news is allowed.
Posts must be news from the most recent 30 days.
6. All posts must be news articles.
No opinion pieces, Listicles, editorials or celebrity gossip is allowed. All posts will be judged on a case-by-case basis.
7. No duplicate posts.
If a source you used was already posted by someone else, the autoMod will leave a message. Please remove your post if the autoMod is correct. If the post that matches your post is very old, we refer you to rule 5.
8. Misinformation is prohibited.
Misinformation / propaganda is strictly prohibited. Any comment or post containing or linking to misinformation will be removed. If you feel that your post has been removed in error, credible sources must be provided.
9. No link shorteners.
The auto mod will contact you if a link shortener is detected, please delete your post if they are right.
10. Don't copy entire article in your post body
For copyright reasons, you are not allowed to copy an entire article into your post body. This is an instance wide rule, that is strictly enforced in this community.
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
Honestly, I understand why he shot. The cop came in a bit hot at first but he didn't immediately use a gun. It only came to that after Lenny started winning the brawl and after attempting to use a Taser instead.
He even started to apply first aid afterwards. So I think the cop did okay here.
Nah fuck that. It was verbal until the cop tased him, then its not exactly shocking that it causes him to react. The cop was screaming the whole time, no de-escalation at all. Just get him to the side of the road, safe and talk while waiting for backup. It's just more evidence of undertrained US cops. There was no reason for this man to die.
Absolutely!! Backup took 4 minutes. Leonard just wanted to know why he was getting arrested instead of just getting a ticket. He obviously hated cops, but he was perfectly willing to talk before he was tazed.
The CNN video is very deceptively edited. The full clip shows way more combativeness and non-compliance from Cure.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGNIAozOIok
I didn't watch the CNN video, I watched the one you linked. Yes, he was being an asshole, but he wasn't threatening. His hands were still on the truck. The officer tazered him because he wouldn't put his hands behind his back, right? He had already called for backup, though, right? All he had to do was continue to let Leonard argue with him until cover arrived. Backup didn't arrive "too late," the officer escalated the situation "too early." It was literally only a couple of minutes into the stop. Some de-escalation on the officers part and the story would have been different.
I think that's a reasonable take. It still could have been prevented by Cure simply complying with the orders- the court is the proper place to fight that- and I think the officer was well justified in attempting to arrest, but he should have only used the taser and escalated once backup arrived or he was forced to. I agree that was probably a mistake, but at the same time, with a person that combative and non-compliant, it's difficult to say for certain.
The previous time he complied with orders from cops, he wrongfully lost 16 years of his life behind bars, ruining all future prospects. I 1000% understand why he would be asking a lot of questions with his first interaction with cops after years of abuse in a completrly for-profit system that rewards abusers.
~~We have no idea if he complied before. Given the fact that his sentence was only so long due to a previous record, it seems more likely that not complying was his usual stance. I don't know this for sure, obviously, but it does seem more likely.~~ The previous statement is misinformation, I believe. One of the attorneys in the exoneration said that he complied with the original arrest and thought he'd be able to simply explain that he wasn't the robber, which obviously did not go in his favor. While it definitely helps explain his actions, I still do not believe assaulting an officer is the right path to take, though I do understand it better now.
But there's such a vast gulf between "complying" and "attempting to kill (or at least cause serious bodily harm to) an officer" that I have a hard time finding the officer at fault here. Why did he flee? Why did he refuse lawful commands? Why did he give his name as "Yahweh" as far as I can hear? Why did he attempt to assault the officer after being tased? What was he planning to do to the officer had he not fired, as the repeated "Yeah bitch" suggested very violent intent to me. These are all valid questions that I hope we get answers to, but it's unlikely that we will. All any of us can do is watch the video- which is the most direct evidence of the truth- and form our opinions based on that.
"Why did he flee?" Because he had been wrongfully accused and sent to prison for 16 years before, obviously! "Why did he refuse lawful commands?" Because those enforcing it are lawless and wrongfully sent him to prison for 16 years. "Why did he attempt to assault the officer after being tazed?" Are you being serious right now? Have you ever been tazed before? It's an awful experience and does awful things to your heart, especially in the moment and especially to someone who is older. He obviously must have held a grudge after 16 years in prison and might even have promised himself to not go down without a fight next time, or maybe loose the rest of his lofe in prison. Guess he "just" ended up losing the rest of his life period.
Maybe try to live a little more empathetically and learn to try and put yourself in others' situation, given what they've been through. This is an obvious egregious case and awful that it had ended like this. Not sure if you're aware of how corrupt the federal government are in the US and about their internal gangs and racism towards non-caucasians.
I am well, well aware of how shitty the system is, I assure you. But given how you patronized me ("Maybe try to live a little more empathetically"- sincerely, go fuck yourself, you self-righteous prick), I don't feel like arguing. All I'll say is this- Leonard Cure's death is a sad situation that was avoidable with different choices from either party. The officer made mistakes, but given Cure's erratic behavior (my bet is that toxicology will show that he was high on some sort of stimulant given the strange "Yahweh" answer, the disjointed head and arm movement, aggression, and lack of pain response to the taser, baton, or bullet), combativeness, and noncompliance, I completely understand why the officer defended himself. If this was an "obvious egregious case", then why is it being discussed here and throughout the internet?
Yes, my singular patronizing statement definitely warrants your over the top response.
It's so sad to see how you've already convinced yourself of how he was guilty of SOMETHING before even knowing this, which is why I made the suggestion towards an empathetic approach. You're clearly defending the cop and trying to show how the victim (the one who died in this exchange) was wrong after all. You said this knowing full-well that he has wrongfully spent a signifficant portion of his life behind bars, being berated by guards (which is how the system works), growing jaded and distrustful towards the broken system that ruined his life. You hammer on his non-compliance, where his compliance in the past did not grant him ANY justice.
I'm sure both sides made mistakes, HOWEVER, the weight of making better choices and acting appropriately rests on the shoulders of the officer enacting the law. That's his job FFS. I've seen enough footage of officers escalating situations, switching off body cams before committing crimes, etc. and not being punished in any way. The cop is not the victim here. And you're blaming the only victim in this scenario. His life is a tale of victimhood, and you cannot seem to fathom that his actions have been molded by a corrupt and broken legal system.
Even on that video, the cop sucked the entire time (due to the lack of good training). You are alone on a busy highway, the last thing you want to do is start a fight, you don't even want to be on the shoulder like that, it's far too dangerous. No matter how you wanna show this, the guy should never have been put in a position to be shot.
People like you are responsible for the "thin blue line" types and for the perpetuation of no accountability.
You have the order incorrect. The cop started the brawl by Tasing.
The article says Cure was going at 100 MPH for 80 seconds after the officer put on his lights. Cure pulled over in the end, but that doesn't mean it's not a chase, which is why the cop ordered him out so quickly. 100 MPH is already more than just a speeding ticket, that's reckless endangerment. In general, 15 MPH above the speed limit is considered reckless. Add that to the chase, and that's why Cure was under arrest rather than just a ticket. I agree with you, the cop did nothing wrong here. He gave lawful orders, escalated force reasonably, attempted both his taser and his baton before firing as a last resort when he began to lose the fight and his own life became threatened, and administered first aid immediately.
I've been pulled over for going faster than 100mph. 103 to be exact. Didn't get arrested. It's 100% at the officer's discretion.
A couple of years ago, I was listening to music in earbuds and didn’t notice cop tucked in behind me for a couple of miles, while doing 126 on a motorcycle with some of the baffles removed. Because I’m of the Eddie Haskell phenotype, I only got dinged for 85 and the cop even stuck around for a few minutes to chat about the bike.
One of the reasons I’m solidly ACAB is that I almost never get popped for tickets, and when I do, they’re always knocked down by the cop to de minimis charges. Of the tens of times I’ve been stopped since the late-‘70s, I’ve eaten maybe six total tickets. Cops aren’t fair.
Yeah, I got dropped from 103 in a 70 to 79. Cop asked me why I was speeding, and I truthfully told him that it was a beautiful day, had good tunes going, and was just in a great mood and didn't realize I was going that fast. He was a marked state trooper that was driving with traffic and I blew right past him.
I rarely get tickets because I have veteran plates and a veteran drivers license, most cops just give me a warning. Got stopped three times in one day trying to get out of Texas, all warnings. Last cop of the day gave me a weather forecast. I guarantee if I wasn't a white dude with vet affiliations I would get way more tickets. Cops aren't fair.
Funny, I've only been pulled over once on my bike, and I was just keeping up with traffic, which was going 80 to be fair... But he claimed I was going 97, so I had to go to court, where he lied his ass off to the judge, and I had to eat a $400 ticket plus whatever it did to my insurance... and I'm very white too, if I wasn't, who knows what that piece of shit might have done.
How long did it take you to pull over after you got lit up?
Did you also flee, though? That's the other thing. He kept driving for well over a minute before finally pulling over. That was the reason for the arrest, and then when he resisted arrest, only then did the officer escalate.
Did you pull over when the cop turned his lights on or did you lead them on a chase for a couple of minutes?
Pretty sure it took him a couple minutes to catch up to me, so I don't know of you'd consider that a chase or not.
No it's not. Here's the proof.
You technically correct which is the best kind of correct, it’s not automatic. There is evidence to suggest that in general the 30 mph over the limit would have resulted in a reckless driving arrest.
Either way whether it would have been has nothing to do with how the situation played out.
Do you have a link to that evidence? I'd be interested in seeing it.
Here’s the legal precedent. Travis v, State
There’s anecdotal evidence as well.
https://getjerry.com/questions/how-fast-is-considered-reckless-driving-in-technically
https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/comments/qap7u1/got_2_traffic_tickets_speeding_and_reckless/
https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/comments/9egs7j/ga_speeding_and_reckless_driving/
There’s also evidence that they don’t always determine reckless driving at high speeds, especially when targeting for that en masse it seems.
https://www.wsaz.com/2023/06/14/dozens-drivers-were-caught-going-over-100-mph-georgia-interstate-police-say/?outputType=amp
It’s really officer discretion based on the wording of their reckless driving law. Either way, as I said, whether it would have been or not doesn’t matter in regards to how this stop played out.
That doesn't prove that it isn't considered reckless driving. Excessive speeding is reckless driving. They haven't put an exact number to it and the statute is vague but this lawyers page tries listing some examples.
The link I provided is clear ... if on an interstate highway he'd had to have been going 35 mph over the speed limit for charges to be applied. He was going 30 mph over so he should have been issued a $500 ticket and a court date (as further fines could be assessed by a judge).
The cop murdered him with exactly zero cause. A classic #ACAB.
If 85mph counts as a super speeder, how do you think they view going 100mph? Also your link does say:
It's not like not doing more than 34mph over exempts you from reckless driving when doing 100mph. No where does it say you have to be doing 35mph over for that.
Yes it does ... here.
Quote the part that says that for me. I'm not finding it.
That does not say you can't be charged with reckless driving if going only 30mph over.
He literally had his hands around the police officers neck.
After the cop escalated shit way beyond what it needed to be.
The fuck a traffic stop for a speeding ticket should become a cop murdering yet another Black man.
Maybe black guys shouldn't be out there acting like violent thwacked out psychopaths?
He also fled and resisted arrest. Both arrestable offenses. If he would have promptly pulled over, it would almost certainly have been a citation at worst. He fled at 100 MPH for over a minute before finally pulling over. Also, how is an officer being choked out on the side of the highway defending himself with a taser, then a baton (while actively being strangled and bent nearly backwards), and only THEN a gun, "zero cause"?
A whole minute?? Wow! That like OJ's high speed chase.
/s
Any fleeing is still fleeing. I don't understand why you think this was an unjustified shooting. He was putting every other driver at risk, refused lawful orders, and threatened the officer's life while saying "Yeah bitch, yeah bitch." Not exactly a paragon of humanity here.
No one in their right mind believes that anyone who is being pulled over for speeding deserves to die because the cop is a murdering sob.
If you believe that, fine. We're done here.
Give the full video a watch. It may change your mind.
https://youtu.be/tGNIAozOIok?si=957m9XDvuYryhM5D
But you didn't establish that he's a murdering son of a bitch. Did you actually watch the video you posted? All of it? Cure wasn't "pulled over for speeding", that's insanely reductive to the facts. He was going over 100 and refused to pull over for over a minute for no clear reason. In addition, when he refused to obey lawful orders and allow himself to be placed under arrest, he further escalated the situation. When he attempted to inflict severe bodily harm on the officer while taunting him, I'd say the shooting is extremely justified, especially when you consider the fact that the officer only fired after deploying two separate non-lethal methods to subdue Cure. He didn't deserve to die for speeding. I'd say he somewhat deserved it when he attempted severe bodily harm on the officer, though.
A Black man is dead because he was speeding.
A cop murdered him.
A black man is dead because he was speeding, evaded the police, resisted arrest, and assaulted the officer.
A cop defended himself.
There you go, I fixed it for you.