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Putin Unleashes Record Bombing in Ukraine as the World Watches Gaza
(www.thedailybeast.com)
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this post was submitted on 06 Nov 2023
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Russia: fighting to expand their territory because they want a new world order led by them Israel: responding to their most terrifying act of terror ever happened on their land.
Reason matters, and a lot. Russia has no good reason to invade Ukraine, Israel has a very good reason to invade Gaza.
Theyre both violating the Geneva Convention...
There's no valid reason to violate that, that's the whole point of it.
Actually Israel isn't technically violating the Geneva Convention. When you co-locate civilian and military targets, the civilian infrastructure loses it's protections under the Convention.
The occupation of the West Bank is in violation of the Fourth Geneva Convention, article 49. This has been established by the International Court of Justice in a ruling from 2004. Israel's defense was indeed that the territory is disputed instead of occupied, but it's the only country that holds this position. Literally the only country in the world.
Sources: Fourth Geneva Convention, ruling of the International Court of Justice (relevant are paragraphs 90-101)
The West Bank isn't at war. The Gaza Strip is. That's the area Israel pulled out of and evicted (some at gunpoint) every Jewish settler; even those who had been there since before the 1948 partition plan. They've respected the 1967 borders there with no settlements as a way to prove that pulling back to those borders would lead to peace and not constant terrorism and warfare.
Ok, how does that support your argument that Israel does not violate the Geneva Convention tho?
It doesn't, he just talked about how the west bank is not relevant to the geneva convention, and his point still stands in Gaza. Civilian and terror infrastructure is intertwined in Gaza, and that's his argument.
The withdrawal of settlers and forces from Gaza was not initiated until 2005, which is almost 40 years of illegal occupation. In 2007, the occupation was officially lifted and replaced with a blockade. And they did not pull out their forces and settlers to "prove" that "pulling back to those borders would lead to peace", it was to finally fulfill the duties they agreed on in the Egypt-Israel peace treaty from 1979. The Oslo Accords that resulted from that treaty only exist because Israel did not fulfill their promises after several decades, so there were talks again.
So how about he doesn't contort the narrative so hard that it makes my head spin?
Israeli left wing parties absolutely did pull out in the belief it would lead to peace. Their political coalition didn't have the support to do the same thing in the West Bank. They believed that if peace reigned on the strip, and violence continued in the West Bank it would justify a similar settlement eviction in the WB.
The current right wing coalition would have never approved the 2004 disengagement plan. And the violence that followed it is what brought them to power.
Lemmy is just weirdly pro-Hamas and anti-Israel.
Don't get me wrong, I think what Israel is doing sucks, but what Hamas is doing is equally bad. This is really a both-sides situation.
Hamas isn't Palestine. Israeli gov isn't Israel.
When you make simple distinctions like this, things get less complicated.
The impulse in westerners who want to support the Palestinian people against genocide trying to separate them from Hamas comes off to me as deeply condescending and obtuse. The majority of Palestinians support Hamas. And they have every reason to. Not that most of them were alive and old enough to vote for it the last time the Zionists granted them the privilege, but the vote between the PLO and Hamas when it occurred was between a group of collaborators who negotiated away any hope of returning to their homes and a group that -actually fights back against the people who killed your entire extended family-. Of course they support Hamas. Who else do they have to put their hopes into? You? At your keyboard? What's your suggestion to them?
In 2005 Gazans had complete control, without a siege over the region. The siege started in 2007. They had their own government and their own freaking autonomy over themselves. That's just facts, whether they line up with your agenda or not.
The siege started after Hamas, an actual terrorist organization that advocates for deadly jihad over all of Israel, gained power in a violent coup, murdering the existing fatah members.
Not to mention that during the duration of said siege those 2 million had water, food and electricity provided by Israeli tax money, not that it makes the situation amazing for Palestinians. But no, that means that they have drinking water and food (at least when they don't slaughter 1400 people from the hand that feeds them)
Reply all you like I won't discuss anything with someone so brainwashed that thinks anyone who doesn't agree with him is a fucking Nazi.
You're truly a disgrace to humanity if you compare this to fascists. You're either extremely ignorant, extremely brainwashed, or just have blind hate towards the west. No matter which of those you are, that's scummy and oh how much I hope people with actual power in this world aren't like you.
"Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words."
Hey look at the Trump supporter using their mating call "You call everyone who disagrees with you a nazi"
No. You're literally a nazi. You support a fascist ethnostate that's in the middle of committing a genocide as we speak. We disagree on fascism and genocide. You're a nazi if the word has any meaning in it at all.
And I hope you follow your fucking leader, nazi. Understand what I mean by that. Follow your leader.
You say that like it's a nationality and not a title for people who were ethnically cleansed from their homes and driven to a refugee camp. Typical nazi rhetoric. History doesn't exist. The meanings of words are arbitrary. Never
What a stupid fucking child speaking out of class. "They had their own government." Fucking really, you fucking idiot? And what did their 'government' have the authority to do? Field an army? Collect taxes? Shut the fuck up if you don't know a single fucking thing about this shit, idiot. As if you give a damn about the words coming out of your mouth in the first place, anti-semite.
And this is your justification for committing genocide, you piece of shit nazi? Follow your leader.
Straight up nazi shit. "Bite the hand that feeds them" fucking wow. https://imeu.org/article/putting-palestinians-on-a-diet-israels-siege-blockade-of-gaza Literal fucking nazi shit. This is the fucking charity you think the sub human dogs should be thanking their superior human masters for. Deliberate starvation.
Nevermind how Israel would bomb any water treatment plants the Palestinians would build themselves. Nevermind the fact that they refused to allow construction materials in "because Hamas" so they couldn't rebuild infrastructure. Did you not know that, idiot, or were you simply omitting facts that complicated your genocidal desires, nazi? Same difference. You want to kill a million children.
Israel is killing many, many more Palestinians than Hamas is killing Israelis and it has been this way for decades.
Also, doing wrong when done "in retaliation" is still doing wrong.
So... We agree that Israel killing civilians in response to Hamas's attack is wrong, just as Hamas killing civilians in response to persecution by Israel is wrong?
Yep.
Weird how you misconstrue criticizing Israel's genocide with support for Hamas tho. Very concerning.
You left out the part where Israel has been murdering Palestinians and stealing their land for decades, and turned Gaza into an open air prison. That kind of thing pisses people off.
That still doesn't make any of this right.
You missed the part about Israel fighting Arabs and Palestinians for their very existence since 1948. It's not a simple situation. Whereas Ukraine is simply a megalomaniac trying to expand his power at all cost.
You missed the part where Arabs had been on that land for over a thousand years before the European Allies decided to sent their Jews back "home."
Also, fuck Putin.
Agreed.
All I'm saying is no one is innocent here except the civilians being executed at an appalling rate.
There is a difference between invading and turning Gaza into a concentration camp.
You'd think the Jews would know better.
Oh right, Gaza the concentration camp where children are forced to work with no pay, women are raped then killed and trains are used to carry people for 3 days without water/food to a gas chamber killing everyone.
Oh oops that was the Holocaust. Silly me, it's just that the media told me Gazans are experiencing the holocaust so I mixed the two up.