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submitted 1 year ago by troyunrau@lemmy.ca to c/canada@lemmy.ca

With apologies for voicing an opinion rather than linking an external article.

I am of the strong opinion that Remembrance Day had become at best grandstanding, and at worst, completely meaningless. There are phases tossed around like "Lest we Forget" or "Never Again". But when Russia invaded Ukraine, we have effectively done the opposite (or very nearly).

Sure, we can send ammo so Ukranians can fight back, or host some of their forces for training. But the reality is, we are only marginally involved. We haven't mobilized. We aren't on war footing economically.

The root causes are many. But a combination of NATO's article 5 protection only kicking in if we are attacked (rather than joining an already existing war), and the threat of nuclear retaliation, means we are paralyzed politically.

At a minimum: I would support direct involvement, whether that's ramping up our own military, deploying specialists, reservists for minesweeping, stationing our own troops (meagre as they are) in Ukraine to directly support the fight. I would actually support much larger actions, including naval blockades or airspace closures but wholly understand that Canada cannot execute those on their own.

We cannot allow genocidal wars to be pressed in the modern world. And we should be doing everything we can about it. Right now, we're doing barely more than nothing.

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[-] LeFantome@programming.dev 5 points 1 year ago

Philosophically, I am very attracted by what you are saying here. It is certainly something to hope for and not to give up on. We cannot completely ignore the evidence of history however.

Are you familiar with the name Neville Chamberlain and the phrase “Peace for our time”? Neville would be applauding your post. Many people believe his desire for peace allowed a lot of war, death, and suffering that could have been avoided.

The real world is complicated. What you want and what you must do are not always the same thing.

[-] ininewcrow@lemmy.ca 0 points 1 year ago

The appeasement that led up to WW2 is completely different to anything today.

The world was negotiating with an ultra right wing fanatical political movement that was expansionist with a lot of motivation .... a small nation with no natural resources, no fuel and no land area. Coupled with an economy that was destroyed by a previous war and now based all their economy on the military and in expansion to new territory. Not to mention that the western nations supported this fanatical right wing movement at the start ... the German war machine was partly funded, supported and assisted by British, American and other European corporations, leaders and even monarchies. Henry Ford is a prime example that supported Nazi Germany and even got an award from Hitler himself ... they built Germany's military trucks leading up to the war ... not as Ford but as a newly created company called Opal. International industrial companies, chemical companies, civilian, military, medical and manufacturing companies all lined up to build the German war machine ... even as they all knew that Germany was not allowed to build up their military again. Aircraft, ships, military equipment all built inside the most monitored nation in Europe after being blamed by the last war ... and the allies turned a blind eye.

Modern Russia has none of these parallels .... they don't have a large enough or modern military (it pales in comparison to the Americans), they have abundant resources and they have more than enough land space. If they had wanted to expand, they would have done it long ago and they would have failed. The only thing the Russians have is nuclear weapons but its a useless weapon because once those are used ... everyone loses. Wealthy oligarchs in Russia and everywhere else only have one motivation to not use nuclear weapons ... money and finances ... they all know that once nuclear weapons start destroying the world, it will take most or all of their imaginary wealth locked up on digital global finances. So everyone on all sides have the greatest motivation to not start nuclear war .... greed.

Chamberlain's appeasement was a false agreement with fascism even when they all knew they were making a deal with the devil who was building an army that everyone knew about (because they were building it with everyone).

Look at the dynamics of the war in Ukraine ... Ukraine fights Russia using American funding and resources ... without America, there is no war ... which means America is fighting a proxy war with Russia. The Americans don't mind this kind of conflict .... they can use their hardware and money and no American lives will be lost ... no one cares if Ukrainians die so the war will continue until enough Russians or Ukrainians die ... or if America runs out of money.

[-] macaroni1556@lemmy.ca 1 points 1 year ago

Just because I'm a car history guy, I think you have some broken information about Opel.

The company predated Nazi Germany by a long shot as a general equipment manufacturer in the 1800s and was one of the biggest auto producers in the 1920s holding over 25% of the market. They were actually bought by General Motors (not Ford) in 1929.

Where you did get it right is the famous Brandenburg factory was funded partly by the Nazi government and to specifically make the Opel Blitz trucks. Which were at the time just a general work truck in high demand. But soon after GM lost control and the plant was used to exclusively make military trucks for the war. But this is the same for any factory at the time.

A lot of this can be explained by the US political attitude to Germany where they kept up positive diplomatic relationships up until the attacks in the Pacific. The large companies like GM didn't have a direct reason to divest from their ties to Nazi regime, as they weren't really denounced themselves and still an important trading partner. Their investors would have had protests on a change of course. For GM, Opel was a huge success at the time.

Of course cutting ties and divesting would have been the moral thing to do, but capitalism has no morals... Apple doesn't mind making products in China today but sanctions on tech are already changing the course for companies like Nvidia, not without lots of protest by their leaders.

Also yes Henry Ford was idolized by Hitler and Ford didn't mind that one bit.

this post was submitted on 11 Nov 2023
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