705
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 13 Nov 2023
705 points (93.6% liked)
News
23311 readers
3600 users here now
Welcome to the News community!
Rules:
1. Be civil
Attack the argument, not the person. No racism/sexism/bigotry. Good faith argumentation only. This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban. Do not respond to rule-breaking content; report it and move on.
2. All posts should contain a source (url) that is as reliable and unbiased as possible and must only contain one link.
Obvious right or left wing sources will be removed at the mods discretion. We have an actively updated blocklist, which you can see here: https://lemmy.world/post/2246130 if you feel like any website is missing, contact the mods. Supporting links can be added in comments or posted seperately but not to the post body.
3. No bots, spam or self-promotion.
Only approved bots, which follow the guidelines for bots set by the instance, are allowed.
4. Post titles should be the same as the article used as source.
Posts which titles don’t match the source won’t be removed, but the autoMod will notify you, and if your title misrepresents the original article, the post will be deleted. If the site changed their headline, the bot might still contact you, just ignore it, we won’t delete your post.
5. Only recent news is allowed.
Posts must be news from the most recent 30 days.
6. All posts must be news articles.
No opinion pieces, Listicles, editorials or celebrity gossip is allowed. All posts will be judged on a case-by-case basis.
7. No duplicate posts.
If a source you used was already posted by someone else, the autoMod will leave a message. Please remove your post if the autoMod is correct. If the post that matches your post is very old, we refer you to rule 5.
8. Misinformation is prohibited.
Misinformation / propaganda is strictly prohibited. Any comment or post containing or linking to misinformation will be removed. If you feel that your post has been removed in error, credible sources must be provided.
9. No link shorteners.
The auto mod will contact you if a link shortener is detected, please delete your post if they are right.
10. Don't copy entire article in your post body
For copyright reasons, you are not allowed to copy an entire article into your post body. This is an instance wide rule, that is strictly enforced in this community.
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
You do realize that these aren't the same people, right? They have like polar opposite beliefs on the subject.
Anyway, this kid was "banned" from playing the role, they didn't lose the audition.
Their point isn't about this outcry, it's about the reaction to the outcry.
Their anology is, if it's wrong for a cis person to play a trans character then it's also wrong for a trans person to play a cis character. They're trying to criticize leftist hypocrisy.
Now, I think it was a minority of pro-trans people that criticize a cis person playing a trans character. But I guess their criticism of that minority is fair.
Not only did they not lose the audition, they won the audition and then had it taken away from them. And therein lies the hate. It's not a "no", it's a "yes but go fuck yourself".
Same website, but still you are right that banning someone from performing based on anything outside their performance is outrageous.
So your suggestion is that the consistent view would to only allow trans kids to play trans roles? So a trans boy (assigned female at birth), who is literally indistinguishable from her male peers, is just shit out of luck? And trans girls are going to have to wait til their (obviously very open) school decides to do Rocky Horror Picture Show?
Fuck off and let kids be kids. Weird fuckers obsessed with children's' genitals.
Their point is it's hypocritical to say a cis person can't play a trans role.
I know what their point was.
Then why are you acting like they think a trans person can't play a cis role?
Honestly, as long as trans women aren't played by cis dudes that's an improvement over the past century.
Poont is, I don't really care who plays who, I'm okay with a trans woman being played by a cis dude, and a cis dude being played by a trans woman, it should not matter as long as their acting is good.
What you are missing is a century plus of the thumb on the scale (much longer if you go back to Shakespeare where only men could play women). The world doesn't suddenly become a complete meritocracy overnight (if ever), and striving for equal representation in the arts is very important.
Just look at how children of color have been inspired since Disney decided to start making protagonists that look like them and have similar backgrounds.
No actor of any gender now is lacking skill because of Shakespeare...
I agree, but a key takeaway is to also ensure that trans actors aren't discriminated against for any role so that they receive a fair chance.
Why can't they be? Your issue is when it's mocking trans women, but anyone could play the role and then mock trans women.
Are you aware that trans women are not physiologically the same as cis men? (If you weren't, now you are.)
Now do you understand how casting a cis man in the role of a trans woman will emphasize masculine features of the character, and that it plays into a narrative that trans women are men? (if you weren't, now you are.)
Everything I've seen has been based on brain difference trends. Not anything near indicating every trans woman is physiologically different from a cis man. (If they were you could easily identify trans babies for example.)
This is what I assumed was your concern, which honestly I think is shallow. You view it as transphobic to portray "non-passing" trans person (not to mention that a cis man could still pass) but, doesn't that "erase"(I don't agree that not depicting something erases it, but many believe it does) the experiences of non-passing trans women?
I literally have tits.
Okay and? Assuming that's you saying you're trans. Again, not all trans people are passing, take hormones, or corrective surgery. + There are plenty of non-permanent alternatives that a cis person could use. One of my best friends wears breast forms for example.
Historically, trans woman characters have been played by men.
" bUt NoT AlL"
fuck off. The majority of trans women are physiologically different from men; the majority of actors who have played trans women are men. That's fucked.
Where did I say "But not all" anywhere???
What does this mean?? Are you talking about brain wise? Because that doesn't matter, for an actor, it's not visual. If you're talking about affirmative care wise, no.
"In 2015, the largest survey of transgender people in the United States reported that 25% of respondents reported having undergone such a surgery." And trans rates are notoriously undercounted so it's likely an even lower percentage.
Would it be just as wrong for a trans man, without affirming care to play a trans woman in your eyes?
What about a trans woman without affirming care?
You dingus. It means exactly what it means. The bodies, and face, of trans women are different from men. 98.61% of trans women in the US take HRT. HRT changes the body. How can you be this dense?
Plenty of cis men are not physically distinguishable than those on HRT. There are plenty of cis men with "feminine" fat distro, and thinner body hair.
The lengths you would go to to find such a rare person with such a rare endocrine disorder just so that you could avoid hiring a transwoman to play a transwoman.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Danish_Girl_(film)
As long as they don't go all Little Britain on it, I don't see it as a problem.
Okay, so, addendum: if the story is set in a time or place where the character wouldn't have access to hormones, then it's fine.
There's also a case to be made that if you have sufficient fuckery with CGI, you could make a story during an ongoing medical transition.
What I'm talking about is throwing a wig and some powder on some lantern jawed dude and calling it a day.
For example https://www.salon.com/2018/07/18/do-not-let-scarlett-johansson-dropping-out-kill-hollywoods-first-trans-studio-film-opinion_partner/
Rofl, I saw what you put there and it was hilariously incompetent.
yes thats why i deleted it