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Donald Trump says he never swore oath "to support the Constitution"
(www.newsweek.com)
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this post was submitted on 28 Nov 2023
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They are arguing that the oath doesn't include the word "support" not that he didn't take the oath. Not saying it's a good argument but that's what they are actually arguing.
Emphasis mine.
I feel like if that's your argument, you absolutely have no business being president.
He didn't and doesn't.
I wonder what their definition of "support" is and how they plan on using that as a defense.
Or what their definition of “defend” is, and how they plan to use that as support.
Well. I mean he didn't literally carry the constitution around. So he wasn't supporting it that way.
The Constitution wasn't a foetus. Republican support ends at birth.
Looks like the founding fathers fucked up, and the writers of the 14th amendment didn't catch it.
The oaths of office for the Senate, House of Representatives, Supreme Court, and all civil and military offices except the presidency include the requirement to "support" the constitution. Even the vice presidency requires it, but the presidency does not.
I don't think this distinction is particularly relevant. I don't think the "previously swore an oath" requirement is particularly relevant. The "insurrection" part should disqualify him, and the Colorado judge ruled that he did, in fact, commit insurrection.
I am curious whether he ever made a campaign speech or other public statement about the constitution, and used the word "support".
"I am curious whether he ever made a campaign speech or other public statement about the constitution, and used the word “support”."
Knowing him it was probably more like "I love our Beautiful Constitution™ really, very good stuff, Great Constitution. I would touch that Constitution, you know they let you when you're famous, that Constitution is the best they say, the best Constitution in the world (I don't support it) the Democrats though, they want to take Our Beautiful Constitution™ and make it Communism! Venezuela and eating rats! It's what Disgusting Democrats love to do. Anyway, such a Beautiful Constitution, really the best, maybe the best of all time they say. Never supported it though."
I just thought of something. Every officer of the US except the president is obligated to take an oath to support the constitution. 5 USC §3331
Read the 14th amendment again:
Trump was found to be an insurrectionist.
Every member of the electoral college is obligated to take an oath to support the constitution. Any of them providing "aid and comfort" to insurrectionist Trump is barred from serving as an elector. They can't cast a vote for Trump, because doing so would be giving him "aid or comfort".
So even if Trump can't be barred from service, all of his electors can be. With no members of the electoral college able to vote for him, he can't be elected.
By the same argument, if he is elected, any state or federal civil or military officer who follows his orders would be giving "aid or comfort", immediately disqualifying themself from their position.
Just you wait and see. Bet everything I know on it. Come November every trumpet will be tooting, "it was just a little insurrection."
The judge also found that the "Office of President of the United States" was not an office of the United States... so yeah...
"Elector of the President or Vice President" is an office. Even if this ruling means that Trump himself can't be disqualified from running, his electors (as in: the electoral college) can be disqualified for providing "aid or comfort" to an insurrectionist by voting for him.
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Yeah it's pretty wild. Someone else linked the full ruling below, but the relevant parts are:
Edit: Starting on page 95 of this doc if you want to read it yourself: https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/02nd_Judicial_District/Denver_District_Court/11_17_2023%20Final%20Order.pdf
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I despise Trump and think he absolutely should be disqualified from holding office (including the presidency) - AT A MINIMUM. I'm also far more a "spirit of the law" advocate than "letter of the law". With that said, the findings of the judge are perfectly reasonable in full context. The letter of the law clearly omits in its enumerations the office of the presidency. For this to have been merely a mistake would be so monumental an oversight as to make it highly unlikely. If there had been no listing of included offices, then the catch-all portion of that language would perhaps inarguably include the presidency (because of course it SHOULD be included). Thus, this omission also strikes at the spirit of the law. What the judge is saying is that the fact this list is included, yet fails to include so obvious an office one would imagine should be included (the presidency), indicates - absent compelling evidence to the contrary - that the Founders intended it to be omitted. In other words, absent said evidence, neither the letter of the law nor the spirit of the law suggest the presidency was meant to be included.
This is a circumstance in which I would argue the judge ain't wrong and if we're not happy with that, then the law needs to be changed.
I see your point, but can't help thinking this from a layman's perspective. If I were going out of town for the weekend and left a note for my kids that said "While I'm away, no keggers, ragers or any other types of parties at the house." Then I come back to find out they held a massive rave that destroyed my house, and they say "obviously a rave wasn't included when you said any other types of parties. A rave is bigger than a kegger or a rager." I would be more than a bit upset.
It's the Air Bud loophole for fascists.
I would much rather have a golden retriever as my president
TIL that in basketball it's legal to head the ball like in soccer
I think it's only a foul if feet touch the ball
Ahh semantics. "Lawyers hate this one trick"