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Basic Constitutional Law
(lemmy.world)
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this post was submitted on 23 Dec 2023
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See the 14th Amendment to the constitution, added after the civil war. It prevents citizens who previously swore an oath to support the constitution (so any federal employee, person in the military, or federally elected politician including President), and who engaged in insurrection against the United States from being eligible to hold public office.
Edit: We really shotgunned you there, didn't we 🦆
Edit 2: Added info about oath
I'm curious why that only prevents people who have sworn an oath. Why should anyone who has engaged in insurrection be able to hold office? Forgive me if this is a dumb question, I am only half awake.
They didn't want to completely disenfranchise southerners after the Civil War. There's an argument to be made that they should have, but I can see their logic in not wanting to antagonize people while trying to put the country back together.
At the time, people were a lot more loyal to their states than to the US as a whole, so it would have been a lot like punishing patriots for fighting for their country.
Probably because they’ve proven that they won’t follow the oath they swore. So if they get reelected and swear the same oath (that they’ve already broken once) again, we already know they can’t be trusted to uphold it. So we don’t even give them the opportunity to be sworn in a second time.
But since an unsworn person never violated an oath of office, they’re still an unknown and could potentially be trusted. It’s a sort of “innocent until proven guilty” situation, where the person hasn’t broken any oath so by default they’re assumed to be trustworthy. But as soon as you break that oath, you’re not going to be trusted again.
Another situation I could see is if you had a massive power grab by an authoritarian group and a subsequent insurrection that actually led to them being overgrown. Wouldn't make sense to disqualify the ones that fought for it.
An important point. This insurrection rule could be used by fascist to retain power.
Is it any citizen or just ones who previously held office? Just curious, it sounds to me like it is directed at people who previously or currently hold office.
It says anyone who had previously taken an oath to support the constitution, which is pretty much any federal government employee, including civilian workers, members of the military, members of Congress, members of the Executive Branch (including the president), members of the Judicial Branch, etc.
Emphasis mine. Below is the text of section 3 of the 14th amendment. It disqualifies anyone who has previously taken an oath to support the constitution who engages in insurrection or rebellion against the constitution.
14th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution:
This is why Trump was taken off the ballot in Colorado. The court found that he engaged in insurrection.
Most people don't know the Constitution very well even if they've read it before (and most people haven't). So I don't blame you for not knowing.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-66690276
In the riot's aftermath, the US House of Representatives impeached the then-president on a charge of "incitement of insurrection".
Had the US Senate voted to convict him, it would have had the option to take a second, simple-majority vote to bar him from ever serving in office again.
But that never happened: the Senate failed to reach the two-thirds majority required to convict Mr Trump, so there was no second vote.
There is nothing in the 14th amendment that says that the Senate has to convict him to bar him from office. Or that any state does not have the right to control its own ballot.
The Senate has to agree that he should be barred. That hasn't happened.
A dangerous precedent if fascists get into power. Clear rules are needed.
There is nothing in the 14th Amendment which claims that, which is why Colorado took him off the ballot.
It has been the precedent since the beginning of the nation. The Secretary of State of each state sets the election rules in that state. That's why some states have mail-in ballots and some states don't.
As a counterpoint, Arizona Supreme Court and the Michigan Court of Appeals, decided that, in the absence of a criminal conviction, removal from the ballot was unnecessary.
It can also be argued that as primaries are the party choosing who it wants to put forward as a candidate, and parties are private corporations, there is no constitutional relevancy at this stage.
Colorado has a law that says you can't be on the ballot (even in a primary) if you're not "qualified" for the office, thus the Constitutional question is relevant in Colorado.
The problem is who decides on the (dis)qualification. In this case one federal judge disagreed with the conclusions of judges in two other states and the majority of the House of Representatives.
14th amendment section 3, emphasis mine
http://wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution
The 14th amendment, section 3 disqualifies anyone that “engaged in insurrection or rebellion.” It was written after the Civil War to prevent former Confederates running for office. Many people believe it also applies to Donald Trump.
Only people who can recognize objective reality believe it.