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Basic Constitutional Law
(lemmy.world)
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this post was submitted on 23 Dec 2023
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People keep saying the GoP will ~~recognize~~ abuse this but they underestimate how little I truly care about politicians. They seem to think everyone cares about politicians as much as they care about Trump. If someone gets disqualified for some minor reason, so what? Seems like a good filter to keep only newer people in the running.
People in politics for decades become corrupt. It happens with power and time. So if they find a way to disqualify Biden, I don’t really care. There’s a hundred million other people who could choose to run. Maybe Greg from down the street might have a shot if politicians who do shit get kicked to the curb when they do shitty shit
[edit] used a wrong word completely. Adding some additional language
I see the point you're trying to make, but I wouldn't say attempting to overthrow our government to remain in power is a "minor" reason.
I think they're saying the people who care about trump think it's too "minor" of a reason to disqualify him and if another candidate was disqualified for what they thought was a minor reason they wouldn't care.
I think they're saying that the GOP will abuse the precedent and start disqualifying anyone for any minor reason, but op doesn't care if someone else gets disqualified.
I do not think they are saying that what Trump did was being considered minor.
The argument against it is going to be all about due process and how he hasn't been proven to have done that. If we argue that the accusation is enough, that's when they start trying to disqualify candidates left and right because accusations are cheap. Hell, they've already built a whole house of cards suggesting Biden has been essentially receiving foreign bribes routed through family members and their businesses.
And no, comparisons to CSA officers not being convicted of anything but still being disqualified aren't a good fit, because they were engaged in open rebellion. There was no question of fact whatsoever since they had you know, publicly held office in the rebel faction.
Trump calling an election protest rally is well within his 1A rights, and he wasn't openly calling for or leading the actual attack on the capitol. Which will be the whole crux of his fight against being disqualified on constitutional grounds unless tried and convicted.
Yeah, I see Republicans make that argument a lot. I'm glad the judges ruled that the January 6th Commission did follow due process and found it credible that Trump engaged in an insurrection. Of course, most Republicans live within their own news bubbles and would never hear that.
When this inevitably hits SCOTUS, the question is going to surround due process and what standard needs to be met. Is "credible" enough?
Where does "credible" land on the scale of terms they usually use for this thing? Does it mean the odds he did the thing are better than half? Better than 75%? 90%? 99%? How much should be necessary (that last one is typical for criminal trials, the first one for civil)?
Is the House the body that should be deciding who is disqualified, and should they have to vote on that or should a committee investigation funding it likely be enough? Should the Senate have any say at all? The judiciary? Should it be up to states on a state by state basis to decide if and when 14A applies?
Remember, whatever answer gets arrived at will not be Trump-specific, and the GOP will definitely use and abuse that standard against Dem candidates.
About a decade ago, due to a quirk in our voting system which has been changed, we had a senator elected from a fringe motoring enthusiast party - and he only got a fraction of a percent of the vote. He was actually quite good because he was wise enough to know that he didn't know things, so he sought the opinions of experts, and actually read and tried to understand legislation. Unfortunately he only had a short term, but I always use him as an example of how being a good politician isn't about being the smartest guy, it's just about listening to the experts and trying to represent the best interests of your citizens.
Much like Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho.
I recall this being said about Kennedy. He surrounded himself with the best people he could find and didn't want to be the smartest person in the room. He was no stable genius either.
This isn't about you.
Shit, I made a big typo. I mean to say “the GoP will abuse this” in regards to everyone saying using the 14th amendment to disqualify candidates.
It's not even so much that they they become corrupt. It's that they become entrenched and as a result they end up wielding power that far exceeds their office. For example, Nancy Pelosi was ludicrously powerful for a mere House member, and Mitch McConnell almost single handedly dictates how half the Senate votes on many issues. A second term for Trump would be the end of America because he controls a huge cult on top of any formal powers he would get from being the President.
Career politicians are a cancer for any democracy. But I could also see term limits being another obstacle they overcome by plaguing various other elected positions and using the influence they've gathered.
As are career lobbyists - who have an even easier time manipulating inexperienced newly-minted legislators. Term limits are a panacea as far as fixing our democracy is concerned.
We have term limits already. You lose an election, your terms are thereby limited. Im really not trying to be facetious, but passing term limits means we have an electorate that woke up and pushed for them.
That increased level of democratic engagement is what we need, not necessarily term limits themselves. We already have the means to vote out crappy incumbents, but we don’t. You can’t legislate your way out of political disengagement, that’s my take, I guess.