285
NATO to Buy 1,000 Patriot Missiles in Face of Russia Threat
(www.thedefensepost.com)
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 03 Jan 2024
285 points (96.4% liked)
World News
39011 readers
2767 users here now
A community for discussing events around the World
Rules:
-
Rule 1: posts have the following requirements:
- Post news articles only
- Video links are NOT articles and will be removed.
- Title must match the article headline
- Not United States Internal News
- Recent (Past 30 Days)
- Screenshots/links to other social media sites (Twitter/X/Facebook/Youtube/reddit, etc.) are explicitly forbidden, as are link shorteners.
-
Rule 2: Do not copy the entire article into your post. The key points in 1-2 paragraphs is allowed (even encouraged!), but large segments of articles posted in the body will result in the post being removed. If you have to stop and think "Is this fair use?", it probably isn't. Archive links, especially the ones created on link submission, are absolutely allowed but those that avoid paywalls are not.
-
Rule 3: Opinions articles, or Articles based on misinformation/propaganda may be removed. Sources that have a Low or Very Low factual reporting rating or MBFC Credibility Rating may be removed.
-
Rule 4: Posts or comments that are homophobic, transphobic, racist, sexist, anti-religious, or ableist will be removed. “Ironic” prejudice is just prejudiced.
-
Posts and comments must abide by the lemmy.world terms of service UPDATED AS OF 10/19
-
Rule 5: Keep it civil. It's OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It's NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
-
Rule 6: Memes, spam, other low effort posting, reposts, misinformation, advocating violence, off-topic, trolling, offensive, regarding the moderators or meta in content may be removed at any time.
-
Rule 7: We didn't USED to need a rule about how many posts one could make in a day, then someone posted NINETEEN articles in a single day. Not comments, FULL ARTICLES. If you're posting more than say, 10 or so, consider going outside and touching grass. We reserve the right to limit over-posting so a single user does not dominate the front page.
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
Lemmy World Partners
News !news@lemmy.world
Politics !politics@lemmy.world
World Politics !globalpolitics@lemmy.world
Recommendations
For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/
- Consider including the article’s mediabiasfactcheck.com/ link
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
I know Patriot missiles are relevant to traditional airframes... But aren't they completely irrelevant when it comes to drones? I'm pretty sure each missile costs at least 1000x the price of what it's most likely to be aimed at.
Edit: at four million a missile it's closer to 10000 or 100000x
Patriots are part of a layered air defense system that focuses on more valuable targets, whereas smaller air defense systems and units intercept UAVs.
Example
These aren't for the small disposable drones. They're for other missles and large aircraft. For the missles in particular, you should also factor in the potential cost of the damage they'll cause if not intercepted.
4 000 000 a missile, 100 000x times more expensive than a military drone? what military drone costs $40?
I don't know what models are in use today, but a Bayraktar TB2 costs 4 million.
Even the cheap wedding drones that were converted at the start by Ukraine were in the $400 range. Now the cheapest quadcopters they’re using are $1000 on the low end, with the ones Russia is using have a low end $35,000 price tag. Still ridiculously cost effective compared to a Patriot Missile.
Yeah but the use case of patriot missiles is not shooting down rc quadcopters so this whole line of argumentation is just kinda useless
https://www.politico.com/news/2023/12/19/missile-drone-pentagon-houthi-attacks-iran-00132480?utm_campaign=dfn-ebb&utm_medium=email&utm_source=sailthru&SToverlay=2002c2d9-c344-4bbb-8610-e5794efcfa7d
It’s already happening in the world.
The Ukrainians and houthis are having successful attacks with consumer drones that have hand grenades or ieds taped to them. You don’t need a “military grade” drone to fly an explosive where it shouldn’t be
You aren’t going to take out an arms warehouse, a bridge, or anything of tactical meaningfulness with a grenade drone.
They are good for taking out soft targets but that’s about it. Their use is extremely limited as grenades are only good as anti-personnel weapons.
Comparing them to Patriot missiles is silly. Different uses.
They wouldn’t use Patriot missiles on targets where grenades are effective.
A block of c4 is as easily taped to a drone as a grenade and that will take out the targets you mentioned.
A block of C4 would put maybe dents in the type of targets that Patriot missiles are designed for.
You also need to be within vicinity of your target to be able to operate a drone, which a missile doesn’t need.
Drones can be easily jammed. Missiles aren’t easily jammed, not with the same tech stack needed for drone jamming.
Apples and oranges. Different targets, different engagements, different applications entirely.
I’m not saying they replace Patriot missiles, obviously that’s not the case. I’m just saying you can cause a lot of damage with a $100 dollar drone and some c4, pretty similar damage to a $400,000 missile. The missiles aren’t really showing their cost-impact ratios to be good if what the Russians are spending on Ukraine is to be taken as evidence
Don't forget scouting. Giving soldiers in the field the ability to poke one over a hill can be useful. A $25 FPV drone off Amazon can do that job if that's all you can afford.
Not that you'd use a Patriot against that, either.
now that's a multiple meaning I can get behind. soft, pudgy, vodka filled targets.
Both Russia and Ukraine are heavily reliant on consumer drones from the likes of DJI. Those run in the 1000-4000 dollar range.