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this post was submitted on 05 Jan 2024
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politics
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The people that sue to keep people off ballots, RCV off ballots, rig their own primaries, and cancel primaries to install their chosen candidate have no business talking about threats to democracy
People that sue to keep insurrectionists off the ballot are fine by me.
That's not what being discussed here
Uh? How so?
The DNC has sued to keep Green party off state ballots, they argued in court they are a private corporation that can use primaries to install their preferred candidate, and theyve sued to keep RCV off ballots for future elections, and sued to keep RCV off ballots where its already passed for use.
Trump, who you are referring to, even though he is a piece of shit, has only keep accused of insurrection, not charged with it. Whether you like it or not, until he's charged, he should be free to stay on the ballots. Which is what I expect SCOTUS to rule.
The DNCs corrupt shittiness aside.
Have you been completely living under a rock the last 6 months? He's been charged.
https://politico.com/interactives/2023/trump-criminal-investigations-cases-tracker-list/
https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2023/07/politics/trump-indictments-criminal-cases/
https://www.nytimes.com/article/trump-cases-counts-charges-strengths.html
Point out where he's been charged with insurrection
Go waste someone else's time.
edit: no need to call you an idiot, that's mean.
I’ll be mean! That guy’s an idiot.
Because no one can point out where he's been charged with insurrection? If you only support rule of law when it's your side, you don't support rule of law.
This is Lemmy. It is pretty caustic and will be the downfall of it.
I on no way like Trump but you are entirely correct. He is still legally entitled to be on the ballet. Same as being impeached. He was acquitted by the rules of the constitution whether we like it or not. Doesn't mean he is innocent because he was not convicted.
That's the thing, I know he's crooked as fuck and always has been. I've thought that of him for decades. But my opinion doesn't matter if he's not convicted of these things. And Any critique of Biden is taken as support for that POS.
You're on point despite being downvoted. There are other people who believe that principles should be applied consistently out there. Don't lose heart!
This thread was about insurrection, not his other crimes. you listed valid links for his crimes, none of which addresses the topic in this thread.
The 14th amendment says nothing about being charged or found guilty of insurrection.
There are different levels to being a threat to democracy. I'm pretty sure what Democrats did doesn't really compare with the dictatorship Trump has in mind and what happened on Jan 6.
Liberals help enable the type of dictatorship we currently live in.
Biden isn't suing to keep anyone off a ballot. Trump being charged and held accountable for the crimes he committed is how the justice system is supposed to work.
You don't actually believe that, if you did you would be saying he has a right to be in the ballot because he hasnt been convicted. Right there there is a claim he's responsible for insurrection, but no conviction. Which is how I believe SCOTUS will rule.
He doesn't need to be convicted to be removed from the ballot. He certainly should if he is convicted, but that isn't a requirement under the 14th amendment.
Claiming to support democracy while denying due process? How BlueMAGA of you.
Article 3 of the 14th Amendment has been invoked at least 8 times in the past few centuries. Please review them and explain to me you think how Trump deserves better treatment than the previous 8 people.
Trump doesn't believe in due process. He's literally said as much.
His people don't believe in due process.
If he is allowed to get back into the white house, he will absolutely ignore every single thing preventing him from going full dictator. Due process won't matter to him, the rule of law won't matter to him, the goddamn constitution won't matter to him.
But at least you'll be able to feel smug knowing that you almost got "bluemaga" to be a thing.
It has been a thing, you not being aware of it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
Your entire comment is meaningless hyperbole.
The latter half may be hyperbolic ... but the former, about article 3 is fact. Cry about it all you want, it's express purpose is to stop assholes like Trump.
Section one is the preamble to all other sections of the amendment. It gives the baseline that all other sections must follow.
Section 3 of the Fourteenth Amendment gives Congress the power to disqualify someone who has already held a public office from holding "any office" if they participate in an "insurrection or rebellion" against the United States.
https://constitution.findlaw.com/amendment14/annotation15.html
... go on...?
Not having even the basic understanding of the law? How moronic of you.
Basic understanding of law means a basic understanding of due process and how everyone is entitled to it. Not just the people you agree with. Denying due process to those you oppose makes you the same type of dictator liberals claim to hate.
Yes but you don't seem to understand that due process in this case doesn't mean he needs a criminal trial and conviction for him to be removed.
Read the 14th amendment then tell me where it mentions "convicted of insurrection" - it does not. It only mentions participation, or even supporting someone who participated.
Trump is receiving the due process as we speak right now.
If there was a waiver of due process it would be stated.
But section 14.1 of the 14th amendment reads
This precedes section 14.3 which addresses Disqualification from Holding Office. 14.1 due process precedes all other sections of the amendment to establish a requirement for due process in all other sections.
You have my upvote for actually going through the Amendment. Respect.
However, you're still ignoring the point that due process is occurring (at least in Colorado, Maine was definitely dodgy). Trump does not need to be criminally convicted of insurrection, it just needs to be decided in court that he meets the bar of being disqualified from office. The Colorado Supreme Court decided Trump should be removes from the ballot, now the US Supreme Court will decide - that is due process.
Being disqualified under 14.3 has a slightly different set of standards to meet than a criminal conviction for insurrection. Arguably he should also face a criminal charge, and a conviction would make the disqualification a sure thing.
It's a bit like civil vs criminal. If you're convicted of a crime, then the civil trial is basically a slam dunk. However, OJ famously got off on the criminal murder charge, then lost the civil trial for killing his victims. Trump being convicted of the crime of insurrection is a separate type of proceedings to removing him from the ballot for being involved with insurrection.
They're not wrong. The Dems aren't the good guys here. As usual they're just slightly less bad. Someone that loves democracy lets a primary election happen rather annointing their chosen meat puppet....sorry, candidate.
Why do commies agree with MAGAs so often? “Ukraine Nazis! American government evil!” Fuck outta this country. We gotta crowdfund one way plane tickets to North Korea for your lot
BlueMAGA has more in common with MAGA than socialists and communists have with either of you. If it were trump doing the exact same things Biden has done liberals would be all up in arms about it. The same way they've been quiet while Biden enacts the exact same immigration policies as trump, still locking kids in cages. Has kept DeJoy and Trump's appointment. Same mental impairments that liberals write off as a stutter, despite NO videos from earlier years showing any impairment.
hey can we be friends