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this post was submitted on 12 Feb 2024
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That’s not just complaining about not spending enough, it’s literally inviting an invasion.
And you’re saying that doesn’t undermine their security‽
Or, by association, the security of all members.
I'm saying that the comment undermines nato security less than the majority of nato not contributing to nato security.
If these nations cared so much about their security and cared about the nato alliance they would simply contribute the agreed 2% gdp.
Also trump said similar statements about exclusion from us protection when he was president. It didn't happen then and it's even less likely now that he is not president.
They are inviting an invasion by neglecting their security. Can't blame America for not offering free protection forever.
Trump's inviting the invasion. Let's not get things twisted. The US has plenty of ways to pressure other member states to contribute more spending to the alliance than threatening publicly to break the treaty and winking towards Russia.
The US demonstrates themselves as an unreliable partner. That's not in the interest of the US as they lose power globally, when countries rethink their dependence on them.
The US has been pressuring nato for close to a decade. Trump has threatened nato by withdrawing troops and threatened the exclusion of us protection when he was actually the president. The result of this has been an increase in the amount of nato members meetings their minimum obligations. However the amount of members meeting the minimum requirements has only gone from 4/31 in 2017 to 10/31 in 2023. There are still many large countries in Europe not meeting their obligations.
Trump is using this as an issue to run on. He is not seriously inviting Russia to invade. It's funny to me that you suggest the us being unreliable while they contribute 71% of the spending and only ask that the other countries do the bare minimum. Countries SHOULD rethink their dependence on the us especially Nato countries. Nato countries should consider that they are entirely dependent on the us and consider contributing to their security alliance.
It's one thing to say that a country not spending even 2% of the GDP should not be able to call Article 5. It's another thing to say you would "encourage [Russia] to do whatever they wanted to do" with said country.
Nevertheless it's signaling unreliability, because it would violate the treaty the US has signed. Plenty of NATO countries have helped out the US when they called article 5 on bullshit arguments and lies when invading Afghanistan.
But you're right. It's good European countries rethink their dependence. Too bad it comes with rethinking their alliances as well, with a belligerent USA.
Donald Trump: "I'm inviting Russia to attack other nations if they don't do XYZ"
Other people: "Trump is inviting Russia to attack other nations"
You: "No, other nations are inviting the attack themselves by doing XYZ"
Do you not see how ridiculous this sounds?
Obviously it would be best if trump didn't say something so unhinged but no one thinks trump is inviting Russia to invade.
Nato is undermining itself by doing nothing and putting their entire security burden on one country in a completely different continent. Trump is threatening nato. He is saying you better carry your weight or we may not save you.
I would argue that trumps threat should strengthen nato because if he is elected then his stance puts pressure on nato members to meet their obligations. Nato members meeting their obligations makes nato stronger. If nato members are worried about getting invaded and having no support from the us there is a simple solution contribute 2% gdp to military spending. If nato members are so worried about an invasion then they should probably participate in their military alliance.
I 100% think that Trump is inviting Russia to invade. He's literally stated multiple times that if he were president, he'd try to end the Russian invasion by making Ukraine surrender. That's literally his stated goal. How is that not inviting Russia to invade?
And he also wants to pull the US out of NATO, which would weaken it and make it far easier for individual members to be attacked. Again, that's his stated goal. How does this not make Russian invasions much easier?
The quote is talking about an invasion of a nato state not Ukraine.
He only wants to pull the us out of nato because nato is carried by the us and provide nothing. If nato members actually met their obligations he would have no issue remaining. To me that's a reasonable stance.
Edit: actually its not fair to say trump wants to pull the US out of Nato. Its clear to Nato that the US does not want to leave nato but they(trumps admin) are playing hardball to force Nato members to meet their obligations.
You are absolutely brainwashed.
"Oh yeah, he is inviting a Russian invasion of that one country, but surely not any others!"
"Yeah, he keeps saying he wants to pull out of NATO, but he doesn't really plan to"
And what will you say when he actually follows through on both accounts? "It's the countries fault, they didn't follow his demands, they made him do it"
If trump pulls out of nato I wouldn't blame the us. The blame would clearly be on the nato members who have repeatedly failed to uphold their security agreements.
See? "The countries are to blame for the US pulling out of NATO and for getting invaded by Russia after Trump invited them to". Like clockwork.
If you are given an option. Pay and be protected or don't pay and don't be protected and you choose the 2nd option then you are you to blame when you have no protection. These countries signed agreements stating that they would all pay this minimum amount.
"Look what you made me do to you"
No.