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US Supreme Court sets April 25 Trump criminal immunity argument
(www.reuters.com)
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this post was submitted on 07 Mar 2024
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Why do they need to put this off? Is there really a need to ponder over the question of 'is a president allowed to break laws with impunity?' Because it seems to me like there's only one answer there and it's "FUCK NO."
The Court is actually moving much faster than they traditionally do in such matters.
No they aren't. They were asked to take this up a long time ago and didn't. Then, when shit started looking bad for Trump, they suddenly reverse course and delay his trial.
You are correct. Mr. Smith's team requested that the SCOTUS review this months ago. Long before it was brought to them by Trump's team, as a way to expedite the process, and stop the "play out the clock" approach they take.
There's zero tradition for a former president being indicted numerous times for almost a hundred crimes. There's no measuring stick for this.
They didn't have to move at all, though. That's the thing, they're doing this voluntarily, just like with their ruling on Trump being on the ballots because they claim Congress has to hold a vote every time they want to enforce a law that has existed for 150 years. They chose to rule on that, they didn't have to.
So you don't want a SCOTUS ruling on this? You would rather leave it somewhat ambiguous? I want a solid ruling.
Most times, precedent is set by what the court decides NOT to review. When they say nothing, they are saying "the lower court has it right". This is standard practice.
Other courts should be handling this, the SCOTUS ruling delays proceedings or otherwise makes him immune to crime, both bad outcomes.
Wow. Just wow.
It is fairly complicated. Should Obama be imprisoned for murder of US citizens in drone strikes? Should Bush be held liable for the incompetence in allowing 9/11? Should Clinton be held responsible for deaths in Kosovo for violation of the war powers act?
Presidents do seem to have immunity with regard to actions as a President. Creating a ruling that protects presidential action and allows criminal prosecution for other actions is going to be difficult. There's also the matter of if actions done with immunity can be used as evidence against a president.
There is some existing precedent for distinguishing the President from the Candidate during elections. This could be used as a basis for a ruling Trump isn't immune, but it's hardly definitive.
It's going to take more than an "I know it when I see it" ruling.
Except the question is not 'is the president ever allowed to break the law,' the question is 'can the president break the law whenever he feels like it?' The answer is obviously no.
All of these are asking if someone is guilty when the actual question is are we allowed to bring you to court to determine if you are guilty. A president should not have immunity and if a president feels they need to take extreme actions they should justify them before a court and accept the consequences of their actions. If someone does not want to be in that position to make such a call and pay such a price they have no business taking that role.
In most cases the guilt is largely proven, criminal liability would require a court to agree, but the findings from official reports are sufficient evidence. I'm not sure no immunity is a realistic outcome, a test for what actions are protected is most likely.
To me it seems that if something was agreed upon to be a law it should be enforced and if there are exceptions to the rule they should be written into the law itself. If something isn't written into the law itself it should go to court where a determination can be made and if a jury finds there was good cause to commit such an action they can find them not guilty and a future exception can be added. By adding a blanket immunity it's like adding cheat mode into the game and it's going to be exploited in ways that we haven't imagined yet.
Obama and Bush should face justice.
Both Shrubs should've faced a court.