52
'Battle plan': How the US far right would dismantle climate programs
(www.eenews.net)
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 26 Jul 2023
52 points (100.0% liked)
Politics
10179 readers
485 users here now
In-depth political discussion from around the world; if it's a political happening, you can post it here.
Guidelines for submissions:
- Where possible, post the original source of information.
- If there is a paywall, you can use alternative sources or provide an archive.today, 12ft.io, etc. link in the body.
- Do not editorialize titles. Preserve the original title when possible; edits for clarity are fine.
- Do not post ragebait or shock stories. These will be removed.
- Do not post tabloid or blogspam stories. These will be removed.
- Social media should be a source of last resort.
These guidelines will be enforced on a know-it-when-I-see-it basis.
Subcommunities on Beehaw:
This community's icon was made by Aaron Schneider, under the CC-BY-NC-SA 4.0 license.
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
You remind me of myself when I was younger. And I hope you are right.
It's not my job to hold Republicans to task. It's republican voters that do that. It's republican voters that you need to reach. And it is republican voters that you need to convince that this system isn't working. At least with a real leftist party all of the "the LEFT!" Discourse won't be about democrats anymore.
Oh also good luck holding democrats to anything after voting for them.
And you think Republicans are going to have any more success with their representatives? It is your job to hold Republicans to task, by voting someone else in. And there's only one other party that has any chance of success at that.
It's already not really about them. The Dems do only a fraction of what the conservatives accuse them of. The whining about "the left" is going to be based on a persecution fetish fantasy completely divorced from reality regardless of whether the left in America is the Dems and/or some other party.
And some people vote for Republicans only for a single issue, mostly guns. There suddenly being a pro gun, socially left party as an option would do more damage to the republican base than having another four years of Joe Biden. Honestly at this point I think we start a grass roots effort to elect Queen Latifah without her campaigning.
Only about 30% of Americans own a gun, and only a fraction of those are single-issue Republican voters. Establishing such a left-wing party might put a dent in the Republican base, but it would sunder the Democratic one and ensure unopposed Republican rule likely in perpetuity (they'd just seize power; already they're barely managing to keep the mask of democracy from falling off).
The whole gun issue is a total distraction that does nothing other than galvanize the Rep base. The Dems should just avoid stirring the hornet's nest and ignore it altogether.
I don't think you are putting the right context on that 30% own a gun (and around half that don't could see themselves owning one in the future).
In 2020 American's came out to vote in larger numbers than has been seen in over 100 years and still only 2/3rds of people voted. So of that 66.6 percent about 51% voted for Biden. So that means about 33.79% of Americans voted for the democrat presidential candidate... in the largest turn out in modern history.
The NRA sways a lot of people with threats that the democrats want to "take their guns" but Republicans don't hear that as a funny eye roll phrase. They 1000% think electing a Democrat is electing someone who will send the army to search their house and steal their property. They fully believe that is months from happening at all times.
That's my point precisely. These people keep believing that the Dems are about to seize their guns regardless of how many Dem administrations come and go without it happening, so there's no point trying to persuade them or reason with them. (At this point one might draw some parallels with expecting the imminent second coming of Jesus, which is also a popular belief in these circles.) Even if a pro-gun leftist party were established, these people would just be fed propaganda that its pro-gun stance is a scam, and they'd buy it hook, line, and sinker and vote against it. These entrenched right-wing voters are beyond saving, and focusing on them is a waste of time and resources that would instead be better spent mobilizing the apathetic left-leaning masses.
And how does voting for Joe Biden help us reach them? We need democrats to believe they need to reach left, not right. But they are a center/right party at this point and expecting them to go left because you want them to is lunacy.
Republicans got you believing that voting for democrats that support them is your only option.
It is, that's how a two-party system works. The Democratic Party needs to be reformed from within. Creating competition for it only ensures the failure of both and the rise of conservatism to power.
Okay, keep doing what we are doing and hope they decide to change on their own?
What part of "the Democratic Party needs to be reformed" did you find unclear?
And we are going to influence this reform by... voting for them no matter what?
No, that's how you forestall a fascist takeover. You reform the Dems by getting jobs in the party and pushing it to the left from within.
Well, best of luck trying to convince the center right that they should be left instead of starting a leftist party. I don't think the dems should change, I think they are a great right wing party that I wish I didn't have to vote for anymore.
I understand your frustration, but again, that's the nature of a two-party system. Your choice is between center-right and fascism. Adding more parties to the left of fascism just splits the vote and ensures fascist victory. Adding more to the right would be hard, since the Reps are pretty far right already. Though my hope for 2024 is that Trump get snubbed for the Rep nomination and makes his own party out of spite. I'd be pretty happy if that happened.
Getting a party to change its ideology is hard but not impossible. The Reps and Dems switched platforms once already.
Sounds like we are fascists than. Guess we gotta wait for another county to declare war on us and come kill the Republicans who put all the leftists in concentration camps.
I guess you're done pretending to be a leftist. Cool.
I'm not seeing the connection. Historically when people like the Republicans rule a country they eventually have wars they lose to end the regime. We already have political prisoners in super max from twenty years ago. I wonder how long the rest of the world let's us get away with our bs.
And you find that preferable to another four years of Joe Biden?
No? My hope would be we would overthrow the ruling class, but we've never even gotten close to deciding as a nation that 12 people having all of the money is a bad idea. So it all only really matters so much.
But again no, my hope was for a leftist party in America, ranked voting and at least 5 competitive parties trying to attract voters, a removal of jerrymandering, senate votes in some way tied to population size, so whatever insane percent of the population California is, is not represented by 2% of the voting power. I want a lot of things, and on a lot of these the majority of Americans agree. The IRS should send you a bill for the taxes owed like other developed nations, but because of lobbies we can't have that. I want a health care system that makes sense and doesn't have to charge $600 for an Ace bandage. I want and I want and I want. Most Americans do. I want children to not be starving in a nation that screams we are the greatest Earth has ever, or will ever see. We have plenty and we refuse to spread it to those in need. People need to petition the government for years and hire lawyers just to ask for help because they can't work anymore. We continue to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars testing unemployment benefits receivers for drugs ever though almost no one has been caught and kicked off benefits for it. We have legalized slave labor with our prison system hiring out manual laborers for dollars on the hour and paying tge inmates pennies as low as 13 cents an hour. We have legalized child labor still because the agricultural sector has always been exempt from that rule. Our wages are kept as low as possible for the price of goods to still be purchased, slowly pushing more and more people into the lower class. We have more homes with no one living in them than we have homeless people by something like 2.6 times. We regularly refuse ambulance trips when they are required because they are so expensive, there are ways to not pay, but most people who know that can afford to pay it.
If this is a functioning democracy how do you defend it? If this is a developed nation why do we insist on grinding people at the bottom for fuel?
By voting for the party that represents the ruling class' interests and advances its agenda?
That's nice and all, but in a two-party system you can't get any of that. Your choices are limited to the lesser evil and a bunch of fascists who want to turn the two-party system into a one-party system.
Guess it's wait for the war then.
Or you could try to forestall it. Y'know, on the basis that a war is going to be much worse than the flawed rule of the Democrats.
The flawed rule is what leads to the wars.
Does it? Or are you making the same mistake in your thinking as those guys who are terrified that the Dems are coming for their guns tomorrow despite numerous Dem administrations coming and going without anyone making such a move?