'Battle plan': How the US far right would dismantle climate programs (www.eenews.net)

submitted 1 year ago by silence7@slrpnk.net to c/politics@beehaw.org

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[-] UpperBroccoli@feddit.de 35 points 1 year ago

I'd call the republicans a death cult, but the truth is that they probably believe that this will make them so much money that they can just pick a place on earth that will still be livable when the worst comes. They just don't give a single shit about anyone else.

I don't know how anyone in their right mind can justify voting for these misantrophic shitbags.

[-] los_chill@programming.dev 1 points 1 year ago

I'm beginning to think the majority of republicans in power are so selfish and spiteful that they resent the youth and future of younger generations and actually want to leave things worse. It's the end-stage nihilism of their unchecked greed.

[-] Cybrpwca@beehaw.org 17 points 1 year ago

The ship is sinking and these fools want to steer into the iceberg to grab a few more dollars. I hate everything, I am filled with existential dread, and I need a very strong drink.

[-] Sordid@beehaw.org 7 points 1 year ago

It blows my mind that this kind of plan to undermine vital functions of the government, needed now more than ever, is not considered terrorism and/or treason and punished accordingly. We're facing an existential threat as a species, and their grand plan is to exacerbate it?

[-] baggins@beehaw.org 4 points 1 year ago

JFC

Be afraid, be very afraid.

[-] silence7@slrpnk.net 16 points 1 year ago

Don't be afraid: fight hard. That means not just voting, but actively supporting candidates to opposed them with both time and money.

[-] Didros@beehaw.org 4 points 1 year ago

Where are we getting candidates that oppose this?

[-] silence7@slrpnk.net 12 points 1 year ago

In the Democratic party. Even the ones who are taking money from the fossil fuels industry largely signed on to the Inflation Reduction Act, which is a major piece of climate legislation.

[-] Didros@beehaw.org 6 points 1 year ago

They'll just give ot away in the next debt ceiling "debate" so what's the point of electing dems? It is hardly sending a rebuke to congress to elect one of the two parties. I would rather vote for an actual leftist that loses and causes the dems to lose too than vote for a dem and barley win. We don't advance voting in dems that don't represent us, but just represent Republicans not winning. Cia would kill them, but such is life.

[-] Sordid@beehaw.org 10 points 1 year ago

I would rather vote for an actual leftist that loses and causes the dems to lose too than vote for a dem and barley win.

A vote for a leftist with no chance to win is a vote for the conservatives. It sucks, but such is the nature of the two-party system.

[-] Didros@beehaw.org 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Maybe if the dems never win the Republicans won't have anyone else to blame anymore and they would lose popularity and we could get over them I'm twenty years instead of them gaining steam. Maybe. But climate change is gonna wreck havoc before we try anything other than weak resistance.

Also funny enough my username is yours backwards. Lol

[-] Sordid@beehaw.org 7 points 1 year ago

if the dems never win the Republicans won’t have anyone else to blame anymore

I think you severely underestimate their ability to find scapegoats.

[-] Didros@beehaw.org 2 points 1 year ago

Any hope is better than this: https://www.techdirt.com/2023/07/26/pass-it-pass-it-pass-it-pass-it-pass-it-the-president-says-about-a-bill-the-gop-says-will-be-useful-to-silence-lgbtq-voices/

From the front page this morning.

[-] Sordid@beehaw.org 2 points 1 year ago

So your solution to the Dems occasionally enabling the Reps' evil is to put the Reps in power so that they can enact their evil freely with no opposition at all? Sorry, but I'm not convinced by that logic.

[-] Didros@beehaw.org 1 points 1 year ago

You remind me of myself when I was younger. And I hope you are right.

It's not my job to hold Republicans to task. It's republican voters that do that. It's republican voters that you need to reach. And it is republican voters that you need to convince that this system isn't working. At least with a real leftist party all of the "the LEFT!" Discourse won't be about democrats anymore.

Oh also good luck holding democrats to anything after voting for them.

[-] Sordid@beehaw.org 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

It’s not my job to hold Republicans to task. It’s republican voters that do that.

Oh also good luck holding democrats to anything after voting for them.

And you think Republicans are going to have any more success with their representatives? It is your job to hold Republicans to task, by voting someone else in. And there's only one other party that has any chance of success at that.

At least with a real leftist party all of the “the LEFT!” Discourse won’t be about democrats anymore.

It's already not really about them. The Dems do only a fraction of what the conservatives accuse them of. The whining about "the left" is going to be based on a persecution fetish fantasy completely divorced from reality regardless of whether the left in America is the Dems and/or some other party.

[-] Didros@beehaw.org 1 points 1 year ago

And some people vote for Republicans only for a single issue, mostly guns. There suddenly being a pro gun, socially left party as an option would do more damage to the republican base than having another four years of Joe Biden. Honestly at this point I think we start a grass roots effort to elect Queen Latifah without her campaigning.

[-] Sordid@beehaw.org 1 points 1 year ago

Only about 30% of Americans own a gun, and only a fraction of those are single-issue Republican voters. Establishing such a left-wing party might put a dent in the Republican base, but it would sunder the Democratic one and ensure unopposed Republican rule likely in perpetuity (they'd just seize power; already they're barely managing to keep the mask of democracy from falling off).

The whole gun issue is a total distraction that does nothing other than galvanize the Rep base. The Dems should just avoid stirring the hornet's nest and ignore it altogether.

[-] Didros@beehaw.org 1 points 1 year ago

I don't think you are putting the right context on that 30% own a gun (and around half that don't could see themselves owning one in the future).

In 2020 American's came out to vote in larger numbers than has been seen in over 100 years and still only 2/3rds of people voted. So of that 66.6 percent about 51% voted for Biden. So that means about 33.79% of Americans voted for the democrat presidential candidate... in the largest turn out in modern history.

The NRA sways a lot of people with threats that the democrats want to "take their guns" but Republicans don't hear that as a funny eye roll phrase. They 1000% think electing a Democrat is electing someone who will send the army to search their house and steal their property. They fully believe that is months from happening at all times.

[-] Sordid@beehaw.org 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

The NRA sways a lot of people with threats that the democrats want to “take their guns” but Republicans don’t hear that as a funny eye roll phrase. They 1000% think electing a Democrat is electing someone who will send the army to search their house and steal their property. They fully believe that is months from happening at all times.

That's my point precisely. These people keep believing that the Dems are about to seize their guns regardless of how many Dem administrations come and go without it happening, so there's no point trying to persuade them or reason with them. (At this point one might draw some parallels with expecting the imminent second coming of Jesus, which is also a popular belief in these circles.) Even if a pro-gun leftist party were established, these people would just be fed propaganda that its pro-gun stance is a scam, and they'd buy it hook, line, and sinker and vote against it. These entrenched right-wing voters are beyond saving, and focusing on them is a waste of time and resources that would instead be better spent mobilizing the apathetic left-leaning masses.

[-] Didros@beehaw.org 1 points 1 year ago

mobilizing the apathetic left-leaning masses.

And how does voting for Joe Biden help us reach them? We need democrats to believe they need to reach left, not right. But they are a center/right party at this point and expecting them to go left because you want them to is lunacy.

Republicans got you believing that voting for democrats that support them is your only option.

[-] Sordid@beehaw.org 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

It is, that's how a two-party system works. The Democratic Party needs to be reformed from within. Creating competition for it only ensures the failure of both and the rise of conservatism to power.

[-] Didros@beehaw.org 1 points 1 year ago

Okay, keep doing what we are doing and hope they decide to change on their own?

[-] Sordid@beehaw.org 1 points 1 year ago

What part of "the Democratic Party needs to be reformed" did you find unclear?

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[-] argv_minus_one@beehaw.org 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

They’ll just give ot away in the next debt ceiling “debate”

You mean like how they gave it away in the last one?

Oh wait, Biden played the Republicans like a harpsichord last time they pulled that crap.

Yeah, stuffing Congress full of actual leftists would be better, but let's not pretend these Democrats are completely incompetent.

[-] Didros@beehaw.org 1 points 1 year ago

Well, if getting defence spending up 3%, capping all non-defence discretion spending, requiring an end date to student loan repayment holds, and actually getting money to the IRS so they can do their job is all Biden "playing him like a harpsichord"... really don't want to see what him sucking up is like.

Source: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2023/05/29/whats-in-the-debt-ceiling-deal-struck-by-biden-and-mccarthy.html

[-] argv_minus_one@beehaw.org 1 points 1 year ago

getting defence spending up 3%

Somebody's gotta do it, and I don't see the rest of the civilized world chipping in.

capping all non-defence discretion spending

Yep, that's what tends to happen when Americans vote Republican. Protip: don't vote Republican.

requiring an end date to student loan repayment holds

A setback, nothing more. There have been headlines of further attempts to get student debt forgiven, and again, filling Congress with Democrats will get it done.

actually getting money to the IRS so they can do their job

Over the vigorous objections of Republican billionaires who desperately don't want to get caught evading taxes. That's a big deal.

really don’t want to see what him sucking up is like.

You already did see it, in 2017 through 2021. It, uh, was not good.

[-] Didros@beehaw.org 1 points 1 year ago

Two steps forward and two steps back until it's your kids turn to pick up the mantle.

[-] silence7@slrpnk.net 2 points 1 year ago

They passed it. And managed to (so far) preserve it, and look likely to keep on doing so to the best of their ability with the possible exception of a handful who are bought off. I'll work to elect them because of that.

[-] Didros@beehaw.org 1 points 1 year ago

If that is all you require than I wish you the best.

[-] Nalivai@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 1 year ago

You get them on primaries. And before that, on local level.

[-] Didros@beehaw.org 1 points 1 year ago

What? Democrats had Bernie and he couldn't win a primary against someone with the worst record in congress.

[-] Nalivai@discuss.tchncs.de 2 points 1 year ago

Did you vote on primaries? Did all your friends vote on primaries? Did you participate in your local process of choosing delegates? Do you know how this process is happening in your constituency? If the answer on any of this questions is no, you should get more information about it, and while you will be doing that, you will discover your answer on how come Bernie lost primaries despite being so loved among people who don't vote.
Out of 240 million eligible voters, 19 million voted for Biden and 9.6 million voted for Sanders. Without changing that dynamics there is no changing anything else.

[-] Didros@beehaw.org 1 points 1 year ago

And if I answer yes to all of those questions and was in an early voting state that had Bernie doing much better than Biden? What then?

[-] Nalivai@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 1 year ago

If 10 more millions or so people will do the same, you would have Bernie as a nominee. But they didn't, and you don't. That's a democracy. Now, in order to have it your way, you could for example continue your political activism, maybe even try to get elected somewhere.
What you can't do is to say "everything is rigged because the outcome is not what I wanted" and call it a day. That's not a democracy.

[-] Didros@beehaw.org 1 points 1 year ago

What are you even talking about? I don't have to do anything. And I don't at all understand why you told me that tge definition of democracy is in fact, not where, "what you can't do is to say, "everything is rigged because the outcome is not what I wanted" and call it a day." That is wild.

Everything is rigged, and I can't imagine anyone being crazy enough to say otherwise. I make okay money and would need to work for like ten thousand years to make what some others in our country make in a second. Are you telling me that a system where one person can be placed on such a pedestal could ever be a good thing?

[-] P1r4nha@feddit.de 2 points 1 year ago

When does humanity respond with a declaration of war itself?

[-] Didros@beehaw.org 1 points 1 year ago

waits

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this post was submitted on 26 Jul 2023

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