89
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 08 Jun 2024
89 points (95.9% liked)
Ask Science
8605 readers
3 users here now
Ask a science question, get a science answer.
Community Rules
Rule 1: Be respectful and inclusive.
Treat others with respect, and maintain a positive atmosphere.
Rule 2: No harassment, hate speech, bigotry, or trolling.
Avoid any form of harassment, hate speech, bigotry, or offensive behavior.
Rule 3: Engage in constructive discussions.
Contribute to meaningful and constructive discussions that enhance scientific understanding.
Rule 4: No AI-generated answers.
Strictly prohibit the use of AI-generated answers. Providing answers generated by AI systems is not allowed and may result in a ban.
Rule 5: Follow guidelines and moderators' instructions.
Adhere to community guidelines and comply with instructions given by moderators.
Rule 6: Use appropriate language and tone.
Communicate using suitable language and maintain a professional and respectful tone.
Rule 7: Report violations.
Report any violations of the community rules to the moderators for appropriate action.
Rule 8: Foster a continuous learning environment.
Encourage a continuous learning environment where members can share knowledge and engage in scientific discussions.
Rule 9: Source required for answers.
Provide credible sources for answers. Failure to include a source may result in the removal of the answer to ensure information reliability.
By adhering to these rules, we create a welcoming and informative environment where science-related questions receive accurate and credible answers. Thank you for your cooperation in making the Ask Science community a valuable resource for scientific knowledge.
We retain the discretion to modify the rules as we deem necessary.
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
Ham radio operator here: basically neither will happen because both don't really mean anything.
This is an imperfect analogy, but I think it will set you thinking in the right direction: If someone is blinking a flashlight at you, and you're sitting right next to another person, do both of you see the flashlight at 100% brightness, or do your eyes wrestle for the same light waves?
What does "pick up the signal at 100%" mean? Let's say me and my buddy are talking on our car radios, no repeaters just point-to-point. If we start off in the same parking lot, we can easily hear each other. If we start driving in opposite directions, we'll still hear each other just fine, until one of two things happens: We go on either side of a hill or far enough to be beyond the horizon, and then abruptly stop hearing each other, or the signal will fade in intensity until the background noise is louder.
If we get to that point where the signal is weak but still receivable, increasing output power of the transmitter, or switching to a directional antenna might help. People tend to think antenna gain is some magic that makes the radio louder, but it's not. A high gain antenna does the same thing that cupping your hand behind your ear or around your mouth does; it puts more of the energy that would have gone in different directions in the direction you need.
Without getting too far into antenna theory, I will say that yes having two antennas near each other can cause them to interfere with each other. "Wrestle for the same radio waves" isn't the way I would describe it. Antennas resonate with radio waves, it's like a tuning fork, if you play the note the tuning fork is tuned to, the tuning fork will start to vibrate and emit its own sound. If two antennas are quite close together, this can cause destructive interference. You can use the same principle to construct a high gain antenna; look up how yagi antennas work for more details.
If you don't mind a followup question, what's happening when a signal clears up if you touch or just hover near an antenna?
possibly several things but my first thought is your body is acting like a capacitor to ground. I'm guessing you've noticed this on an FM radio or rabbit ears on a TV that probably weren't grounded well.
That can be for a few reasons...
In some cases you're tuning (or detuning) the antenna capacitively.
On other cases, like if your tv gets interference when you're standing in part the room, there may be standing waves causing interference, as the rf is bouncing around your room.
To further your point, theorically, there is a voltage potential between any two objects. That's the capacitance. Better conductor, for the same surface area, create a bigger potential.
So when you tune/detune a signal with your presence near the antenna, it is because you are close enough to the antenna that the potential between you and the antenna affects the filter of the signal.
Sorry, your comment doesn't make sense and doesn't seem correct to me.
Yes there is a capacitance, but capacitance isn't "voltage potential". Capacitance is a ratio of coulombs per volt. Anyway, that's beside the point.
There is capacitance and it's defined by geometry.
"The potential between you and the antenna affects the filter of the signal"
You're not adding potential to anything, nor are you affecting any filters.
Any capacitance you add will change the impedance of the resonant antenna. You get maximum power transfer when the impedance is matched.
Another way to look at it, you're changing the resonant frequency.
How do you think you are changing the resonant frequency? By modifying it's capacitive impedence, i.e. creating a capacitor with yourself and the antenna.
And you know what we call the difference of electric potential between two points? Voltage.
When you say that capacitance is geometry, you are right. The distance between two objects, be it you and an antenna or two planks of wood, affect the capacitive impedance.
... Was this written by ai
I'm an rf engineer and I swear it feels like I'm having a stroke reading your comments
As the distance increase between two surfaces, the capacitance diminishes and the voltage between the two increase, so that C=QV is always true.
The resonant frequency is determined by the impedence, i.e. capacitive and inductive impedence.
You can't affect inductive impedance of the antenna because you are not a coil and do not emit EMR. But you can change the capacitance between you and the antenna by moving closer or further away.
as the distance increases the capacitance reduces. But C=Q/V doesn't mean you're not inducing any potential into the antenna... You're adding to the load... C=ε*A/d is the equation that says capacitance will decrease with distance, but that isn't going to induce any voltage in this case.
yes this is what I'm saying.
in the very near field, conductive tissue, ie a body, will have Eddy currents. Your body has an ε term as well as σ. You can definitely load an antenna. The R term will dominate but there will be some effect on inductance.