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Apparently controversial, in this day and age
(lemmy.world)
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this post was submitted on 29 Jun 2024
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You didn't look at your own poll last time and you didn't look at it this time either. Here, let me point it out again, this time with a screenshot:
Oh, would you look at that, only right-wing conservatives and republicans edge out in favor of giving aid to israel's campaign of genocide. For some reason you think we should be catering to republican fascists. Are you sure you're not the one who is the fascist? You love using projection like they do and you insist that "most Americans" support fascist policies.
It's amazing that you post the screenshot and STILL don't read it correctly. Here, let me remind you of what you originally said:
But fascists aren't well-known for their stunning memory of what they said in the past ten minutes either, so that's not a surprise.
Of course, the fact that you explicitly advocate for voting for a genocide of American minorities makes this position, in context, utterly unsurprising.
As I pointed out months ago, your poll is from february (older than my poll) and more people have been turning against israel as their campaign of genocide drags on. Even disregarding that, it's interesting that you're trying to paint a one percent difference between the favors and opposes as "majority of Americans", giving more importance to fascist opinion even though this is a difference within a margin of error and, again, this is a poll from february when israel has been losing support. You really shouldn't be lobbing accusations of others being fascist when you elevate fascist opinions like this.
I didn't realize "Your poll is older!" is a response to "Your poll literally doesn't say what you claim it does".
Funny, if you go back through our comments, the only person claiming that a majority of Americans would be voting for or against something is... you.
Huh. Weird. Almost like projection is one of the few tools you have.
But sure, 36% is a majority. Great math you have there. Like the math the Italian fascists used to 'make the trains run on time'.
https://www.ipsos.com/en-us/americans-split-continuing-military-aid-israel
PugJesus fighting hard to try to claim most people love genocide like he does.
"Your poll is from February!" he says, as he posts a poll from February. "Your poll is within the margin of error, just 1%!" he says, as posts a poll within the margin of error, literally just 1%. But hey, opting for no "Unsure" or "Neither" option really makes your 'majority support' of 48% 'more likely to vote for' (and notably not an actual policy position) that much more convincing.
lmao
Fascist hypocrisy is so predictable. More than their trains, that's for sure.
The poll I posted is later in february, showing the trend away from supporting israel's campaign of genocide, so good job missing the point. Tell me more about how I'm supposedly the fascist even though you're trying so hard to elevate support for genocide. Tell us all why we must support genocide because republicans overwhelmingly favor it.
By four days.
Jesus, you really will grasp at anything, won't you?
Says the one who first posted a poll from february so that you could claim that most Americans love genocide as much as you do. The reality is that:
So tell me, what's your point? Because it looks like you're just trying your damnedest to elevate support for genocide. Not a good look.
What.
Your criticism was that the poll was 'too early', and you posted a poll from... four days later in response.
You aren't even trying, are you?
The first poll I posted is from march and showed a big difference with most people not approving of israel's campaign of genocide. You went and posted a poll from february with a 1% more in favor of israel in the total category. I posted a slightly later poll than yours showing a 1% difference with more not in favor of israel to show the trend. Hopefully this is laid out simply enough for you to understand, but it seems like you're trying your hardest to twist yourself into a pretzel so that you can elevate support for genocide.
Literally you:
Your source:
https://www.ipsos.com/sites/default/files/inline-images/reuters%20ipsos%20foreign%20affairs%20graphic%201%20jpeg%203.1.24.jpg
"February 26-28"
Are you allergic to the truth or something?
The FIRST poll I posted was this one: https://news.gallup.com/poll/642695/majority-disapprove-israeli-action-gaza.aspx
I wrote FIRST to differentiate for a reason. Are you allergic to reading or something?
That poll, as already mentioned, does not address the issue you were talking about. You... you DO get how that's worse, right...?
"Majority in U.S. Now Disapprove of Israeli Action in Gaza"
Israeli action in Gaza is genocide.
Therefore majority in the US disapprove of genocide.
Seems pretty straightforward, right? But to PugJesus over here, this somehow doesn't mean that and instead means that a majority of Americans support genocide. How? Hard to tell, but PugJesus over here is fighting really hard to claim that most people love genocide for some reason.
In the same way that Joe Biden disapproves of genocide, ie by shaking their finger but explicitly continuing to support aid for the genocide, you know, what you initially claimed they would vote against. Sorry that you think Joe Biden's position is anti-genocide, but I'm afraid I just can't agree with that. :)
No contradiction there. The former is a statement of well-documented fact and the latter is an incredulous reaction to your bizarre claim
The FUCK are you babbling about??
You literally JUST admitted that most Americans would not be in favor of suspending aid to Israel.
Are you even trying?
The fuck do you think a Trump victory is
Which is a separate question, especially to the ones who mistakenly think that Israel isn't to blame for the genocide or that they're not the only ones perpetuating it.
To get through your thick skull that some people have a favorable opinion of Israel in spite of being against their genocide? Yeah. That it's not working is entirely due to your seemingly willful resistance to simple logic.
An unmitigated disaster. One that the person you were addressing didn't advocate for at any point of this conversation.
Then how the ever-loving fuck is it a relevant question to the issue of Biden's policy of continuing aid?
So... people like, say... Joe Biden?
Why don't you go ahead and ask them who they're voting for? I've had enough encounters with Hark to know their song and dance.
No, not people who are active participants in the genocide who have vowed not to stop no matter what.
A civilian who still instinctively supports Israel in general can simultaneously oppose the genocide. It's misguided, but it's the case of many voters.
In contrast, a PRESIDENT who sometimes says "hey, please cool it, guys!" but also IS AN ACTIVE PARTICIPANT IN THE GENOCIDE WHO HAS VOWED NOT TO STOP can not in any way be said to be against the genocide that he's taking part in.
Just people who SUPPORT active participation in the genocide by sending aid and are determined not to stop regardless of the ongoing genocide. So literally the only difference is voting for this policy vs. carrying it out. Cool.
Let me put it this way - these people you're talking about, in the same position as Joe Biden, if they were suddenly appointed speaker and then Harris and Biden both resigned - what exactly would the difference considering their positions as stated by you to Biden's current approach?
If you can't understand that, then I can't help you.
Wait, wait, let me take a crack at it "They're still more moral than Biden because they aren't participating in the genocide YET, they just support the continuation of supporting the genocide as it is currently and would follow the exact same policy if they were given the power to decide our next course of action", as if that was a distinction with a difference in the context of a discussion of what people would vote for.
In what universe isn't disapproval of Israels actions opposition to genocide?? That's literally what they're doing that people disapprove of!
At most, people want to continue aid to Israel in SPITE of disapproving of the genocide.
Some people still incorrectly think that Israel isn't inherently a genocidal apartheid state, so they want to support them in general, but want the genocide to stop.
Okay, let me remind you of what started this little conversation. The other guy saying
So you wanna explain how
Groks with that?
Yes. Most people want to vote for the outcomes that they prefer and most people want the genocide to end. Ergo most people would vote for an end to the genocide if given the opportunity.
In the minds of these people aiding Israel will either stop the genocide or not necessarily have an effect on it. They're wrong, but still against the genocide.
It's simple logic that REALLY shouldn't be so hard for you to understand.
So under that logic, Biden, who has expressed opposition to the ongoing operations but continued funding it, is also anti-genocide in the same vein that these voters are.
You'll have to forgive me for not finding that a very 'anti-genocide' or 'changing what we're currently doing' stance.
Wagging his finger once in a while when an especially horrific atrocity becomes public does nothing when he's simultaneously sending them the weapons used to commit the atrocities and saying that he'll be on their side no matter what.
Holy minimizing language, Batman! Committing genocide and other crimes against humanity on a daily basis is not your standard "operations". Implying as much makes you sound like you're in favor of it or at the very least don't think it's anywhere near as bad as it is.
Nope. He's literally an active participant in the genocide who has vowed not to stop.
Sure, I'll forgive you for being as dense as a neutron star if you stop demonstrating over and over that you're suffering from a very severe case of the Dunning Kruger effect.
Okay, so literally JUST like the people you're saying are opposed to genocide but support continuing aid.
Great. We're done here.
Nope. They're not active participants in the genocide.
That we agree on. Have the day you deserve.
Cute. They just support the continuing participation in the genocide. Much better.