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When did Microsoft stop developing Windows to be good?
(lemmy.blahaj.zone)
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this post was submitted on 17 Jul 2024
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It's all been downhill since Windows 7. All versions of windows after 7 are just windows 7 with extra bloatware, garbage and Ads.
It's true, if it was still supported I would downgrade from 10.
But it's not, I guess I'll have to shift my main computer to linux sooner or later. I am not enjoying the thought if I'm totally honest. I just want the change to be over and not have to live through the interregnum.
The old world is dying; the new world struggles to be born. Now is the time of monsters.
It's likely easier than you expect. Most Linux distros come with the ability to read and write to the same file system that Windows uses, so other partitions than your install partition can be carried over. This isn't ideal because the that FS has some issues, but it does function fine. I've still got a drive that's mostly media on that filesystem.
The biggest issue is if you depend heavily on particular pieces if software that don't have native Linux versions, though wine may be able to work around that and, if not, a virtual machine can likely handle it.
It's really not too big of an issue to switch. You've likely tinkered with Windows to make it not garbage than you'll have to do with Linux (though you have a lot of options to go further if you want).
Yesterday.
Yesterday I finally looked up how to manually add a program to the main menu on my Ubuntu machine.
There is no default way to do it. I did multiple searches for the information, which I couldn't get from reddit because the browser can't login for some reason that I haven't figured out yet. You either wrestle with massive configuration files, or you have to manually install a program called "Main Menu". That provides an interface which is completely bespoke to do what is effectively adding shortcuts into a folder structure.
So I went through the process of figuring out what this unaccountably bespoke, third party specialised application wanted from me before I could customise the items on the main menu of my own machine. After all that... it crashed. I tried again, and nothing happened. It just... wouldn't run the command any more.
I ended that travesty of an excursion into Linux's many mountains of madness by giving up. I still haven't added the shortcut. I decided I had actual work to do.
In Windows you do that by... adding shortcut files to a folder structure using a file explorer, literally the same way you manipulate files in every other context.
Every time someone tells me Linux is "easy" I have a new, fresh, utterly bonkers story of how impossible the entire experience is, because I am currently, actively trying. I have been trying Linux for 15 fucking years. Stop with the gaslighting. It is a nightmare.
15 years ago, I read all about how easy Linux is now:
https://slrpnk.net/comment/9790061
Nothing has fundamentally changed.
This is not a request for help. I do not want you to solve this current problem for me. I can do that myself. The problem is that these problems are neverending and people just cannot accept that it is a huge problem. Please, I beg you, open your eyes, acknowledge the issue, and stop lying.
Yeah, the “Linux is easy” rhetoric doesn’t really do Linux any favors. If you’ve been told “Linux is easy” and it’s not, then you have a tendency to give up because “well if it’s easy for everyone else but I can’t figure it out, I guess it’s just not for me.”
Trying to convert someone to Linux needs to be an honest conversation, and “Linux is easy” isn’t honest. There will be growing pains. You will need to re-learn things. You will need to google things. You will get an insane amount of toxic “lul rtfm noob” responses from the community if you ever have the audacity to ask for help. If you’re lucky, they’ll at least include a link to the relevant documentation.
But at least that’s honest, and will give the person realistic expectations. They won’t go into it expecting a direct 1:1 Windows replacement, only to be disappointed. People who say “Linux is easy” are like the vegan trying to convince you that soy bacon tastes exactly like the real thing, in an attempt to convert you. When it tastes worse than the real thing, you’ll just be disappointed and less likely to convert to veganism in the future.
I want to be clear, I didn't say it's easy. I said it's easier than you probably expect. The biggest thing is you have to accept that it isn't Windows and you'll have to learn it, like you did for Windows at some point in time. Expecting it to work the same as Windows is where most issues come in.
I've heard riding a unicycle isn't that hard, but if you try to ride it like a bike and expect it to do the same then you're probably going to be in pain.
I agree with you, there are many things about Linux that technically work, but are rough around the edges. I know said you're not looking for solutions, but I could offer some generic advice, have you tried using KDE as your desktop?
GNOME (which is what Ubuntu ships with by default) is not the best for easy user customization. It can be done, but as you said expects things done a certain way. I like KDE because it's more similar to Windows in that it gives you a bit more customization out of the box.
Fedora KDE Spin is my recommendation, but if you want to stick with Ububtu then Kbuntu is also popular.
I've trued kubuntu, xubuntu, mint, opensuse, kali (when I was learning pentesting) and I forget which others.
If KDE is indeed more customisable I may have to give it another try, I do appreciate the information.
Like the other user said, KDE is more windows-like and my preference. Regardless, you're using a different operating system and desktop environment. It's going to want to do things in a different way that you're used to. You can wrestle whatever Linux distro you choose to behave more like Windows, but you're better off learning what it does differently and using it how it was intended. That's the biggest issue I see with people switching. They want a Windows copy, but it isn't Windows and shouldn't be expected to be. You had to learn Windows at some point. You'll have to learn Linux and whatever DE you choose.
The point is not that it's different to what I'm used to. The point is this design decision takes what is fundamentally just adding shortcuts into a folder structure and completely rewrites the interface for no reason. And then it didn't even work. I did all that work just to hit a brick wall.
You told me it's likely easier than I expect. Well, I am telling you that I know exactly what to expect because I am currently doing it, and it's not just hard. It is perverse.
Like honestly I wouldn't be surprised if groups like Microsoft are deliberately sabotaging the user experience by adding shit like this. Not putting in deliberate security flaws, but deliberate design flaws. There certainly seems to be no sense of quality assurance when accepting one or another system as the way things are done.
How do you know that's what it is fundamentally? For Windows that's true, but probably not for Gnome. For KDE I can just install a package with the package manager and it's automatically in the search system. I don't know how it's doing it fundamentally, but it isn't the way Windows does it for sure because it doesn't require me touching it like Windows does.
Again, I have no idea what you're doing or interacting with, so I can't comment directly. For me personally, it works very well without much messing with it, while Windows required a bunch of registry edits and other things to make it work how I wanted. You just have to accept it for what it is and learn how to use it. It will take time to learn how it wants to work, not how you want it to work. It is literally perverse to try to force it to work like Windows instead of learning the new system.
If you've only driven a car, you're probably going to find it rough driving a motercycle like a car. You're best off learning how to drive the motercycle the way it was designed to work.
KDE is almost certainly more your style though. I know I didn't like gnome when I tried it a long time ago. Hopefully KDE fixes your issues, but it's still not Windows and you have to remember that. It will take time to learn how it wants you to use it.
The metaphor is exactly the same as files and folders. That part is transparent, you don't need access to internal implementation details to understand it. The Main Menu program allows you to make "groups" which are no different than folders and "items" which are just shortcuts. For reasons completely lost on me, the files that represent these groups and folders exist flat in a single folder on the drive.
So they reimplemented a folder structure using a markup language and then implemented an entirely bespoke interface to manipulate them. Then you have to search for what it's called and install it, and then it crashes anyway. It's just strange.
And you're the second person telling me it should just be automatic with installation even though I specifically said I was making custom changes to the menu. I want to add things that aren't part of a standard installer. This should be a simple operation for a power user.
You can just drag the icon of the program from the main fullscreen menu and drop it on the side bar, no? Ubuntu is kind of a bad distro, you should give ZorinOS or Fedora a try.
I've tried so many distros, I don't plan to stick with Ubuntu, but I haven't ever seen one that fixes these issues.
The problem with draggin something into the bar is that it's a limited resource of space and it gets cluttered. You put things in menus so you can hide them away and recall them whenever. Hitting start and typing the program name is a much faster way to use the computer for me.
There is a search in the fullscreen app menu or alternatively, you can try a distro with the KDE desktop environment, which has a regular windows-style menu pop up by default, when you press the windows key...
It's the fullscreen app launcher that I'm trying to use, that needs this bizarre solution.
And also, asking people to completely swap out their OS or window manager just to solve an activity menu bug is kind of unhinged. I have already done so much work to get this machine working to this state. I rely on it. Starting from scratch is incredibly discouraging, so I put up with all sorts of friction, hate the experience, and go back to Windows on my main machine.
Plus, what if I switch to KDE, do all that work, and discover another painful, endemic bug? "Just switch distros" is the "just break up" of linux advice. It's easy, lazy, accomplishes nothing, and most people won't do it.
It just looks like you don't like the GNOME desktop environment (the one Ubuntu uses by default), because it's very different from what you're used to, but that's just what GNOME is, you either like it or you do not, it's not very customizable by default. I advice you to give KDE a try, because by default, it's a lot more similar to windows and is a lot easier to customize.
E: There is a difference between switching distros and switching desktops. You can install KDE on Ubuntu if you don't feel like reinstalling.
I already mentioned switching window managers. It's still way beyond most users to do something that drastic to solve a simple problem.
I'm not saying I can't do it. I can and I may. I'm saying you can't start with "it's easy" then slide straight into, "switch distros/desktops". That's the opposite of easy.
And based on how hard everything else in Linux is, I suspect I just don't have the energy for it and will just put up with no shortcuts for now, which is what I've been saying this whole time.
For me on KDE (might be different for gnome) I hit the super key (windows key) and just start typing the name of the package I want to use and hit enter when it's there, very similar to Windows except it doesn't need to be exicitly added.
How are you installing packages? Are you using a package manager? You usually don't need to handle the tedium that Windows has made you think is normal. Your package manager should handle this stuff.
I am adding scripts and programs that don't have installer scripts. I wanted to customise the menu. You don't do that with turnkey installations.
/usr/share/applications buddy
I just mean to say that's all a shortcut is in windows, so liking one and hating another is a bit contradictory.
KDE also has a quite nice application editor
I explained the problem quite thoroughly, it's your choice to be a toxic linux fanboy and ignore how obviously shit the solution is.
And there is a significant difference in how you're expected to make the shortcuts. In windows the operation is built in, default, seamless. In Linux it is unworkably tedious. The fact you don't see the difference is a serious problem.
And the idea I should replace the entire OS or window manager just because of this one bizarre problem I couldn't possibly have anticipated when installing is absurd. You people want linux to be universal and you expect people to work this hard at adoption, and you blame them when they give up on your toxic bullshit? You are deluded.
I'm not gonna lie I don't think anyone who uses Linux thinks every tool should solve every problem, yeah.
But hey if you want your software to not work you're free to!
All I do in KDE is right click applications and click edit applications for anyone wondering, as someone as simple as myself only understands GUI's not fancy folder rearranging
(Like a built in operation? Moving a custom binary to a specific folder is easy? How do you even find this location? And this could be a 2 line script? How much copium you gotta huff to use windows and see its workflow as holy is insane. Ik this ain't the boy scounts level self sufficient but you gotta have at least one or two thoughts bouncing around to use Linux, and for the love of God know what an OS and window manager do before you use them incorrectly, cause both are compatible across gdm/sddm to gnome/KDE plasma)
I hate Windows. I just acknowledge that toxic Linux fanboys like you are only making the problem worse. You suck, and Linux has massive problems.
I know you don't care, I've met too many people like you to imagine you'll ever stop this bullshit.
I'm glad I'm personally the problem in an OS lol
Way to prove you're not a toxic asshole - aggressively misunderstand me and then laugh about it.
EDIT: I leave this comment, then it gets downvoted along with every comment on my profile for at least one page worth of comments. That's another way to prove you're the reasonable one I guess.
Hey I havent down voted anything if it helps.
To get a bit more philosophical I think it's almost important there's assholes like me in the Linux community; its growing desktop share is great but at the end of the day you have to WANT to use it to make full use of Linux as a tool, and if you are hellbent on finding problems with it you can just leave if you're not having fun - were not like Microsoft, nor will follow its customs.
If that's what you think then you're admitting it will never succeed as an operating system.
Also:
This is exactly the kind of gaslighting I said you should stop doing.
I switched to linux a while ago, back when windows 11 was 1st announced and never looked back. Looks hard, but as long as you don't think you can use a Linux distro the same way you use windows, you'll be fine. Think of a Linux distro as "desktop android". Downloading stuff from the internet should be your last resort, after going to the built-in app center.
Having switched about a year ago now, I can say at least for me the switch to linux has been fairly painless. There has been bumps and snags, but it's pretty much worked out of the box for 99% of the things I use on a daily basis. I still have my desktop dual booting for the small handful of things that aren't compatible. But at this point, I'd suspect that I spend on average an hour a month with windows loaded.
I'm glad it worked for you. If you don't mind me asking, what programs do you typically use?
My uses, beyond the typical browsing, text editing basic stuff are:
And a bunch of other stuff I can't think of right now, plus my second computer which is running ubuntu and acting as a server.
I just use my computer so much, for so many different things, that a full switch all at once is virtually impossible. I need dual boot, I always end up returning to Windows to get other things done, and going back to Linux is hard. Each task is another mountain to climb, and there's so much friction at every step, it always stalls and I just default to Windows. Plus I'm chronically ill, and I have regular flare ups, which kill all my momentum.
I've tried doing gamestream using Sunshine/Moonlight, and I just can't get Sunshine working. If I could make that switch, then the linux computer could take that over and get used a lot more, so the main machine would carry less.
Maybe I'll try converting my laptop first, it does a lot less currently so could be a good bridging point, and I wouldn't need to dual boot it. I just need to make sure I've got drivers for the touchscreen and tablet mode, it's a weird one.
Video recording: OBS
Video editing: DaVinci Resolve or Kdenlive
VR: Doesn't work on linux very well at the moment, it's a hit or miss, especially on Nvidia
Programming: VSCode
3D modelling: Blender
PCB Design: No idea, never looked into it
MIDI instruments & synthesisers: No idea, never looked into it
Nvidia gamestream: Yk, I wish I could be more helpful, but I don't have an Nvidia card
Any obscure hardware, unless you can find linux-specific drivers likely won't work... Linux isn't perfect for every use case at the moment, mostly because software support from big brands like Adobe is pretty poor, but you could try it out as a weekend project or a time waster...
Okay, thanks for the suggestions, but I wasn't asking for suggestions. I wanted to see if the person whose switch was "painless" had the array of use cases I have. I suspect probably not, I'd be interested to hear what it was.
I've already found that OBS hangs when recording from my camera. VLC has a terrible inferface and I have to launch it with hacky shell scripts to get it to remember my camera settings, but it works.
Also Blender is not a CAD program. There is FreeCAD and OpenSCAD for most of my cases.
For PCB design, kiCAD is a good open source program.
There are plenty of open source music programs too.
Gamestream has Sunshine and Moonlight FOSS programs. I have the Moonlight client working, but the Sunshine server just won't find it on the network. I've messed with the firewall every way I know how, and nothing works. Sunshine works on Windows, but has lag, so the only thing I've made work properly is the NVidia gamestream server with the Moonlight FOSS client. I've heard Sunshine is better on Linux, but not if it doesn't work.
The hardware is a pain in the butt. I would love to know if my steering wheel runs on OpenSimWheel protocols, but the configurator is proprietary and requires uploading the config after each startup of the wheel. No idea how it'll go on Linux.
All of these are solutions I wouldn't recommend to the non-tech-savvy. It's such a slog to get any of it working, and I need to go through it for each new task. That's why I don't follow through. It's not for lack of software suggestions.
A switch to linux can be "painless", depending on the usecase of the user. I'm (learning to be) a web developer, which can be done on literally any OS, so if I were to switch to linux now and not 3-4 years ago, the switch would be pretty painless. But everyone has their use case and linux just plain does not work for some of them at the moment...
I think you're right about that, but a lot of people just keep banging on about how people should switch and they don't acknowledge the real, structural and practical problems that are stopping most people from doing it.
I dd it the other way around.
Switched to Linux (LDME about 12 months ago) and the things I couldn't do I didn't bother with. I have so many things that interest me I just spend more time on them and found some new stuff.
I was dual booting a few years back because I had a bunch of stuff I couldn't do in Linux and said fcuk it this time. In retrospect I wish I had adopted that philosophy earlier.
Honestly if the answer to the question "how do I do this" is "you can't", then surely you can see the problem with that?
They lost their way with Windows 8, tried to make both desktop and tablet users happy but lost both.