What zero political understanding does to mf'er. Russia only reoriented towards China after its attempts joining the west were brutally rebuffed.
Russia really did join China as a last resort.
Likely didn't want the risk of Russians looking too closely at China and triggering too many fond memories. China owes the people in ex-Soviet countries for the leg up. It was never a perfect relationship and things went sour before it could blossom. But the Soviets did help the Chinese and we're far enough in the future that mistakes can be overlooked in favour of focusing on the sentiment.
And now? Russian capitalists will try to avoid it. But one option is a relatively peaceful transition back to socialism for Russia. The longer Russia gets closer to China, the more likely this becomes as Russians see that (a) it's needed for self preservation and (b) the Chinese have resolved many of the problems that weakened the USSR. Meaning it's both necessary and viable. Due to the CPC's historic debt and the general internationalism of socialists, it probably won't be unhappy to facilitate any movement towards socialism in Russia.
If these are the conditions that lead to the Russian Federation going socialist, I welcome it. Not like my opinion matters.
"joined the west as an equal partner"
Shock therapy, isolation, and NATO expansion
Can't have both, libs, and your masters picked the latter. Now you cheerlead the people who dupe you.
Putin literally asked for Russia to join NATO, more than once, and was rejected
The unpleasant reality is, Russians, like the Chinese, have never, in all their long history, existed without authoritarian rule. Their people are culturally inured to it. They actively seek it. They’re broken, as a society, and only dissolving their society will cure them.
The libs are not ok.
"They have the authoritarian bone in their skulls, they thrive under the whip, those despotic asiatic hordes"
"Don't worry sweaty, I hate the government, not the people"
The unpleasant reality is ~~Russians, like the Chinese~~ Americans have never, in all their long history, existed without authoritarian rule. They are culturally inured to it. They actively seek it. They’re broken, as a society, and only dissolving their society will cure them.
After 9 Thermidor II, they never were again.
LMAO I love how the new cope is going to be that Russia is being colonized by China. It's a pretty funny mask off moment since it's rooted in racism and the idea that Russia should obviously prefer to bend over for the western world order. It's also pure projection since westies can't even conceive of two countries having a mutually beneficial relationship where nobody gets exploited.
This last bit comes up in way too many of my conversations. Even ostensibly anti-imperialist decolonial types will throw in the idea that China is can only be acting in Africa because they are benefitting from it, so it isn't a positive development. Even the fact that African partners are getting genuinely important things out of these arrangements doesn't make the material difference between Chinese diplomacy and imperial extraction clear.
You could've joined the west as an equal partner.
...Hey, remember Yeltsin?
Wow. Unfunny and racist.
The latter implies the former
Little a homophobia too
And homophobic for extra shittiness
The ultimate trifecta
Actual context in the original scene fits this scenario since Mike is putting the blame on Waltuh while this is what actually happened:
westoids really dooby dooby doo like this
You could've joined the West as an equal partner
If equal partner=resource colony, then yes
true. That's the only kind of partnership the US understands. Look no further than their European "allies" since the proxy war started
Holy shit this is so ahistorical it hurts.
Russia literally tried lmao.
Liberals and being historically illiterate. Name a more common duo.
In the seconds after this meme, Walter(Russia) proceeds to shoot and kill Mike(NATO).
I don't think the Libs thought this one through...
Also the Soviet Union was overjoyed at the thought of a Post-War continuation of the Allies, and because the fact that the entire West German leadership were Nazi's, they readily applied for NATO membership, in fact they were one of the first countries to do so. They thought they could avoid hostilities with the US, and prevent an arms race or possible WW3. When they were rejected, they somberly realized what was going on and quickly organized the Warsaw Pact.
The Soviets also offered on two separate occasions to reunify Germany and establish it as a neutral country outside either spheres of influence. This would include the withdrawal of all Soviet, American, French, and British assets and forces. This was soundly rejected.
It's sad lemmy has become a place for blatant reactionary propaganda. Who controls lemmy?
It endlessly amazes me how stupid libs are. You have economist Jeffrey Sachs the architect of the failed shock therapy who was front row for the post USSR Russia on what must be hundreds of interviews in the past two years now explaining in plain words that the US never ever once intended for Russia to be an equal or even to join NATO.
This meme only works if you assume that the west is benevolent and their "support" helps other nations, and that Russia never actively engaged with them diplomatically, and that China has some secret plan to control Russia or something.
I guess when you're a lib, your head is stuck so far up your own ass that you can't actually see the world for what it is so a meme like this would make sense to them.
Obviously 3 layers of interdependent conspiracy theories > reality
History literally starts with each rising of the zun and ends with each setting of the zun for these fucking worms doest it?
As a person in the Imperial Core, I still can't comprehend how backwards the logic is here that most Americans would read this meme and think it's grounded in reality. Even having been the kind of guy who would believe it once, I still don't understand.
I think it's just racist indoctrination to believe Russians are evil.
The opposite seems more truthful : the n.a.t.o. and e.u. were given every chances to welcome Russia, but they immediately took steps to establish their hegemony(, including the bombing of Yugoslavia, and the whole Middle-East), before "protecting protesters" in Lybia V.Putin already knew that we were the biggest liars on Earth, he saw what was hidden behind our lies and opposed Dmitry Medvedev(, almost every article from 2011 says that it was rare for him), who was ready to believe us one more time(, and quickly regretted his trust).
We(sterners) had more than one chance to be united in diversity, we still have this possibility now, instead we're opposing everyone who doesn't conform to our "values". If we(sterners)'re not stopped then neo-colonialism won't end and any country judged too diverse will be forced to conform. Also, Russia is considered too large/powerful and hence too difficult to control, thus a potential threat to western hegemony/"enforced peace", allowing western hegemony may imply a smaller and/or less powerful Russia.
There's more details on everything that Russia(, and even the u.s.s.r. before,) did in order to unite with the west, but we're so certain of our moral&economic&military&.. superiority that we won't agree to any concession.
It's a badly written comment, there's only two arguments and i'd have to search in my computer folders for any sources i may have(, i remember that in the first years after Yeltsin resigned, V.Putin took many measures to unite with the west, and obtained such things as the NATO-Russia Council). I still think that there's a lot of truth in writing that Russia had&'will have' to abandon its diversity in order to have a hope of uniting with the west(, in the sense of not being unfairly attacked by our politicians&medias since they're probably too big to be integrated into the e.u. anyway, they could join n.a.t.o. but they would have to agree with our goal for hegemony and apparently prefer to suffer than being immoral).
Stoltenberg has now publicly acknowledged that Putin made clear to NATO in a draft treaty before the war that it could avert it if NATO agreed not to keep enlarging. But NATO rejected the offer. https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/opinions_218172.htm#:~:text=The%20background%20was%20that%20President,condition%20for%20not%20invade%20Ukraine
Then lastly on Sweden. First of all, it is historic that now Finland is member of the Alliance. And we have to remember the background. The background was that President Putin declared in the autumn of 2021, and actually sent a draft treaty that they wanted NATO to sign, to promise no more NATO enlargement. That was what he sent us. And was a pre-condition for not invade Ukraine. Of course we didn't sign that.
Yeah, totally, they did what they could for n.a.t.o. to publicly acknowledge three times their demand from October 2021 to January 2022 but were ignored if i'm only relying on my memories. And they threatened Ukraine in the beginning of 2021 by amassing their troops at their borders but then retreated, so it wasn't some kind of unprovoked invasion coming from nowhere, our heads of state were clearly aware of the russian demands but lied to their population as usual(, because we're too stupid to be told the truth or sthg).
I'd have to find the sources here as well, but Ukraine already wrote in its constitution that joining the n.a.t.o. was a national priority, and as usual we'll have to thank Eastern Galicia for that(, so it's not a russian illusion about some imaginary threat, they possibly waited for V.Putin to step down before acting), and apparently european "partners" were much less insistant on Ukraine's admission than americans(, confirmed in facts but i still kinda doubt it), the most famous warning about n.a.t.o. expansion dated back from the Munich security conference in 2007, but it can be found since 1991.
No they couldn;t have joined as an equal partner
For real! Hell, they even openly tried to fucking join NATO at one point. They tried going capitalist as fuck really fast to get the west to back the fuck off of the whole "most evil nation that is always trying to end the world because communism". But it wasn't going to ever matter and were still always painted as being a KGB police dictatorship, even though the west was treating other nations with much more literal versions of that shit as being our best friends in "freedom". NATO existing after the USSR and now even expanding to literally non-North Atlantic regions at this point should be so fucking obvious to it being anything other than a mob. Everything "aggressive" being done by Russia is the result of NATO members (especially the US and UK but not limited to them) never having any plans to let Russia be treated as equal.
And the idea that China is basically pulling an op on making Russia bow to them is beyond some of the dumbest lib (both conservative and progressive)/reactionary shit. They were both being treated in every bad-faith ways possible and constantly being loudly pushed as being "evil" no matter what. Both are treated as trying to push the world into another war anytime they do big military training exercises (both joint and just within their branches internally). While the US and NATO are constantly rolling up on their borders and making sure to do similar or larger exercises and always seen as somehow not aggressive/pushing for war.
tried to fucking join NATO at one point
They tried to join twice as History Was Ending/Had Ended, first under Mr. Pizza Hut and then under Putin, and 
never accepted, even after H.W. Bush admitted NATO was becoming a more general security framework. It was always obvious what their intentions were.
: Well, they could be accepted as a candidate member of EPIS with certain caveats, of course.
~~(Where is the Sunday Friend emoji?)~~ thanks @WhyEssEff
The West removed Russia from being its ally against China, in the 90s to 2000s, the mistake is that they wanted it weak and submissive to American interests equal to QUE, the USA does not want similars but vassals
Good memes, bad memes, unite towards a united front.
