cross-posted from: https://lemmit.online/post/1006130
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The original was posted on /r/aboringdystopia by /u/Last_Salad_5080 on 2023-10-03 14:21:04.
Ironic that there's a grammatical error in the headline... 6th-grade levels, surely
77% of Americans write below 9th grade-levels, and hyphens are taught as an elective.
As a former child this is nothing new to me. I remember how much I hated when the teacher had people read things out loud in English class. Hell honestly any class. The amount of people who read like every. Word. Had. A. Period. And the people who would read any word longer than 3 syllables like it was hy-phe-na-ted. It was fucking torture.
20 minutes to read one single page.
Yeah, this was torture in grade school. I figured it would get better in middle school.
Then it was torture in middle school and I thought it would get better in high school.
Then it was STILL torture in high school and I thought it would surely, surely get better in college.
Then I got to college and there were still mofos reading. like. this.
I am an engineer who oversees a team. Most of them can't write more than a coherent sentence. Code and analyze data, sure, but put together a coherent paragraph? Not really.
There's a weird ongoing thing in the programming world where about half of coders think code should be well-commented and the other half not only think that code shouldn't contain comments but also think that comments are an indicator of professional incompetence (aka a "code smell"). I've long noticed that the anti-commenting crowd are also the ones that can't write very well.
Almost like they don't want anyone to figure out how dogshit their code is.
One way my code improves is by thinking what I need to comment. Then I refactor some and the comments become somewhat redundant.
I was shy-ish and didn't participate much, but I would often volunteer to read aloud. It was easier for everyone that way, since one of the few things I was exceptional at was reading
I also couldn't stand reading along with someone who couldn't. It was too painful
I got in trouble for correcting other kids that didn’t grasp phonics. In first grade. I was a little asshole but I was just trying to help. Also it was painful as hell.
Hooked on phonics worked for me.
... I'm actually not cracking a joke. One of the few memories I have from when I was very young (under maybe 6 or so) was going through hooked on phonics material.
In my college years, while not focused on language or communication (I'm an IT technician, specializing in computer networking) I became obsessed with the English language and it's been a long term study for me. I'm still learning new things all the time despite English being my only fluent language. The nuances of when to use what terms despite each term being roughly equivalent (such as: what is the difference is between "affect" and "effect"), and other such oddities and specifics. College didn't really tell me anything new about the language I speak, but dealing with everyone's terrible use of the language, and being misunderstood many times because of poor structure or word selection caused me to want to step up so I can reduce how many follow ups I have to deal with to clarify myself.
I find most people are almost unnecessarily terse, leaving out important context that they think is obvious and assume that everyone who receives their message will make the same observation, when it's not an obvious thing at all to many; this assumption is extremely common and often it's not something that even crosses into the minds of those doing it. Such assumptions often lead to misunderstandings and are the basis of more than a few ha ha funny jokes in sitcoms, all of which I find rather cringe.
As a society, we abuse language severely. By extension, otherwise mundane situations can turn hazardous or even lethal if a misunderstanding happens; and many leave a lot of the context, and a fundamental understanding of context, to the assumptions of the reader/listener. It's really dumb IMO.
If the literal majority of people are reading at a 6th grade level, the society in which we live should be making efforts to improve that. Bluntly, I shouldn't need to "read between the lines" to understand what you want me to do.
It looks like there's at least some bias as they only counted English literacy.
This is basically a map of how many Mexican immigrants each state has. I agree the English bias is not great because not speaking English doesn't make you dumb.
I want to look at the eyes of a person who set a white colour on the scale to 12% value.
Maybe if we actually paid teachers and gave funding to education this wouldn't be a problem. Education in the US is god awful.
And yet "Terms Of Service" are supposed to be fair. When they're written at a college level.
And many adults choose not to read. It is almost as if they are connected
This is the reason the GOP exists as it does. It is the fucking idiots party.
Which is exactly the goal. They want a large number of poorly educated people who are easy to manipulate. This is why they defund schools and ban reproductive health education as their very first steps when they come to power.
Here's an article with more details about the study: https://www.apmresearchlab.org/10x-adult-literacy#:~:text=by%20EMILY%20SCHMIDT%20%7C%20March%2016%2C%202022&text=This%20means%20more%20than%20half,of%20a%20sixth%2Dgrade%20level.
Dr. Iris Feinberg, associate director of the Adult Literacy Research Center at Georgia State University, points to under-served communities with "print deserts," poorly funded schools, and little internet access as being the places where the people with poor reading skills live. She also called it an inter-generational cycle of low literacy, so it's not just a recent problem with people not wanting to read.
Why u hurt our brain with thing that not screenshot of headline or tweet
Yup. And the map is pretty much what you'd guess, Mississippi is #1. That is, #1 for worst literacy rate in the nation. https://www.libraryjournal.com/story/How-Serious-Is-Americas-Literacy-Problem
American's have been going down the dumbass road for a long time. And you rarely meet someone who is well rounded like you meet in Europe. Not to say there aren't dumbasses in Europe. There are many. But Americans don't even seem to try. Not anymore.
I'm American and have lived in Europe for 15 years. I assure you there is every level of educated/not educated (crystalized intelligence) and every level of very bright and pretty slow (fluid intelligence) over here, just as there is in every country in the world. Being educated and being intelligent are not the same thing.
Europe is not one place either, take a random Dane and a random person from Italy or Portugal or Croatia or Scotland and put them side by side and tell me thats one culture, ya know?
To your point, though, I will say that the quality of the foundational education in the US does pale pretty quickly when compared to the majority of public education systems that I'd be aware of here. I've been pretty embarassed about how limited my knowledge of geography and history has been at times while talking to some of my Italian, Irish and German friends.
I am friends with a primary (elementary) school teacher (teaching outside of Hamburg) and she expressed that she's seeing a rapid decline in the students' interest, work ethic and thus their proficiency in the past few years. She's genuinely alarmed. We might start seeing articles like this about mainland Europe in a few years.
I wonder that the standard used for 6th-grade reading level is. I know that the 6th grade reading level at the beginning of the century is higher than the 6th grade reading level now.
I remember being extremely disappointed when I was in 6th grade and they had arbitrarily moved a lot of books up a reading level. There were a few in particular that I was looking forward to reading while in 5th grade that were at a 6th grade level. Then in 6th grade, I grabbed one of those books to check out but was told that I could t read it because it was now considered 7th grade and that I had to choose from the 6th grade level (which was largely the previous year's 5th grade level).
This is infuriating. No one should be denied borrowing a book because they're not at their "grade level". That's the kind of shit that contributes to people losing interest in reading from a young age.
Lol as long as its not porn, we could rent any book
Never heard about age limitation
It wasn't age locked per se. If you were in Honors English, they assumed you were reading at a higher level and could check out books one grade level higher than you and if you were in on-level English you were not allowed to read above "grade level".
I can understand keeping a 6th grader from checking out a bunch of 1st grade level books, but discouraging kids from pushing themselves was weird
This honestly blows my mind.
I didn't have a single teacher or librarian who would discourage a kid from reading a book, unless a 6th grader tried checking out a clearly adult intended book like a harlequin novel or something.
Explains a lot
pointedly doesn't look at the numerous Lemmings he's seen complain that relatively simple statements are grammatically confusing
I’ve absolutely had someone blow a gasket over asking for clarification when they wrote a few sentences where it was unclear from their statement whether they were progressive or a white power lunatic. I could have assumed but my level of certainty was hovering in the mid-50% range. Sometimes the author is an idiot and the questioner is justified. EDIT: from what I could figure out, the gasket blower has a habit of assuming you know their post history rather than letting each comment stand on its own. Which is not very smart.
And then this links to a picture of a headline, because who's actually gonna read the article.
This is such a huge percentage that it has to be incorrect, right? Over half of American adults can't really read? Or am I just vastly underestimating a '6th grade level'.
I had to look this up because I was thinking the same thing.
Sixth grade reading entails understanding plot structures, narrative voices, character developments, and the use of language. Students also compare and contrast themes in articles and stories. In the process, your child’s vocabulary should grow by leaps and bounds.
From https://www.greatschools.org/gk/articles/sixth-grade-reading
I can't find any definition for 8, 9, or 10th grade reading.
I found this, where the definition comes from, it the definition is based on a score on a test and doesn't always seem to have a set of criteria we can look at. https://www.justrightreads.com/reading-levels-explained
3 min read
lol
I absolutely believe this.
Growing up in Ohio, I feel like the 100ish people I graduated with kind of plateaued around 4th/5th grade as far as "things you aren't forced to be good at" go.
I tried every year to explain to my English teachers that it causes me physical pain because of anxiety if I have to follow along with group reading. I'm finished with the book by the time the rest of the class finished chapter 5. I have read the same paragraph over 20 times in the time it took for one student to read one sentence. It was a long one, with a couple 3-5 syllable words, but that is just.... Sad.
And nobody had any desire to improve. Boasting about how few books you've read wasn't common, but you heard it a few times a year.
It's easy to feel superior to someone when you don't understand all their "fancy f** talk" and just assume they're the idiot. Pfft. This dumb fuck thinks "pandering" is a word. A pan is something you cook on, dumbass.
We are required to write our customer facing self-help articles at no greater than an 8th grade reading level. Or people literally can't read to the end.
Largely removing and semblance of usefulness to them IMHO.
So this tracks.
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