As someone already asked, why are comments like those by @bungalowtill not deleted? This is from RT or something.
this post was submitted on 12 Feb 2025
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It is certainly an opinion I don't share, but it isn't outright missinformation. I think we can survive some different opinions in the comment section if there is no brigarding or outright lies.
I would not only delete @bungalowtill's comments but ban the user entirely from the community. They literally wrote:
Another Ukraine project? Sounds like a fabulous idea. Especially for Serbians.
How else can you understand that if not as a call for violence? Such a comment is completely insane.
How is that a call for violence? That is a reference to the Maidan protests with all the messy parts that followed.
It is up to you, I'm not a moderator. Others in this thread appear to share my view that the said comments are highly biased, and they perfectly fit into a propaganda pattern. @bungalowtill's comment ("another Ukraine project?") can only be understood as a direct threat to the Serbian people demanding democracy. For example, Georgia's Russia-linked party 'Georgian Dream' applied such a rhetoric in last year's Georgian election, spreading fears among the population that Russia will attack the country if it opens to the EU and Western democracies.
But as I said, I'm not a mod. I stand by my initial remark to remove such comments, though.
Some people prefer stability over democracy. That's a valid opinion to have, but not mine.
That said, the comparison is kinda bad anyways as Serbia is lucky to not have a land border with Russia.
What? People 'prefer' stability over democracy if they have no choice, as stability and democracy are not mutually exclusive. This argument is completely out of touch.
These people are already protesting explicitly for democracy. And this is not (or, let's say, not only in this particular case) about Russia, but about China. Just read the article. There has been 15 dead people already, people are protesting for democracy, and then such a comment?
Do people in dictatorships 'prefer' living there if they have no choice?
Serbia is not a dictatorship. It is a democracy with deficits.
You are arguing a strawman anyways as I am agreeing with you that better democracy is worth it, but the world is not so black and white and I can accept that some people have different opinions on this matter.
I really wish you from the bottom of my heart that you will never be in a situation having to "choose" stability over democracy.
(In a personal note, you may read rule 4 of this community, "dehumanization.")
Sorry, but how is that "dehumanisation"? Quite the contrary. You are the one not willing to accept that humans can have different opinions on various topics.
This is not about different views, what you are doing is extending tolerance and freedom of opinion to a narrative that comes from regimes which deny exactly this. History has shown where this leads.
No, this view doesn't come from such regimes. It has been weaponized to some extend by such regimes, and I agree that it can be problematic, but by shutting down a view many people have you are exactly playing into the hands of such regimes.
No, this view doesn’t come from such regimes. It has been weaponized to some extend by such regimes, and I agree that it can be problematic, but by shutting down a view many people have you are exactly playing into the hands of such regimes.
This is nitpicking. What @bundalowtill and others are doing is spreading propaganda. I don't see how you 'play into the hands of such regimes' if you take this down. If you don't take this down, they spread further.
The weaponisation works like this: someone promotes what many people consider a "balanced" opinion and then waits for someone like you to show up and throw a fit and demand a removal of this "vile propaganda". If it actually gets removed that's a win, because then they can appear as the reasonable victims of censorship in the view of their target audience. The next step is then to promote their own propaganda platform without this "vile censorship" where they can fully control the narrative towards the then captured audience.
A message from me, if I may express my view again: Not deleting someone's comment because they could feel as victims of censorship. Hm. At least you appear to be recognizing it as propaganda (if you got you right now), although I don't understand this argumentation. Because in that case you'd never delete a message, no matter what.
@bungalowtill is very active in the propaganda work. Their sometimes pseudo-intellectual tone makes it almost feel satirical, but it's Russian and Chinese propaganda and it worsens the debate culture.
[Edit typo.]
No, this is not about "feeling", this is how it appears to other uninvolved onlookers of the conversation.
Some of these may do that for their 50 cents, but many have lost touch with the world. I consider it a mistake not to delete such comments as this has nothing to do with free speech (bungalowtill's initial comment is a clear threat to Serbian people), but I'm not the mod here.
This is not about free speech, it is about not running into a clear trap.
The trap is not to delete it. But here it seems we agree to disagree.
The weaponisation works like this: someone promotes what many people consider a “balanced” opinion and then waits for someone like you to show up and throw a fit and demand a removal of this “vile propaganda”. If it actually gets removed that’s a win, because then they can appear as the reasonable victims of censorship in the view of their target audience. The next step is then to promote their own propaganda platform without this “vile censorship” where they can fully control the narrative towards the then captured audience.
This is a strange justification imo, because so you can never remove anything as they can always celebrated it as a win in the view of their target audience. If you argue that way, you may never remove anything. The bottom line is that @europe@feddit.org is supporting dictatorial propaganda, even if users like the one in question is openly threatening people in a way that perfectly echos Russian narratives.
No, outright hate speech and clear misinformation should be of course removed.
But topics that sound like common sense to a lot of people need to be countered with arguments (and some tollerance for differing opinions) not removal, as otherwise it is way too easy for the people on the other side to appear as the reasonable side that isn't suppressing differing opinions.
Have you been living under a rock the last couple of years? That's been basically the playbook of the populist right and the main reason for their recent success. They play that game of pretending to be victims very well.
Have you been living under a rock the last couple of years? That’s been basically the playbook of the populist right and the main reason for their recent success. They play that game of pretending to be victims very well.
First, I think your explanation for the rise of the far right is hopelessly oversimplified to a degree that's its wrong. But whatever the truth is, there is no reason for being offensive.
Have you been living under a rock the last couple of years?
That's a weird question, especially for a moderator and the obvious fact that I seem to be not the only one who 'has been living under a rock' ...
You understood if you (have) lived in a country where someone else tells you what you 'prefer'. You never did, that is evident from your comments. And as I said, I wish you from the bottom of my heart that you'll never have to make such an experience.
I have lived under such circumstances and still I don't see how that is in any way relevant to some random person expressing their opinion in a comment on a website.
You really don’t care much for the European values you seemingly promote. Please explain why my comment should be removed.
Or how about we stop with the "nation-building" and let other countries decide their own fate? I can't think of many examples where this sort of outside influence had the intended effect long term.
It is China and Russia that are trying to undermine democracies in Serbia, in Europe and elsewhere. @bungalowtill & others are echoing narratives out of Moscow's and Beijing's playbook. We have been observing this in Ukraine before the invasion, and we see this today also in Moldova, Georgia, Armenia, and many other former Soviet states.
This is why I agree also with what is said that bungallowtill's comment is not 'only' derailed but also an offence to the Serbian civil society. The EU must support them, not sit and wait.
Edit: You may watch this video (2 min) to see what it means when the EU let other nations 'decide their fate'. This comment is rubbish in this context here.