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Chinese EV maker BYD says new fast-charging system could be as quick as filling up a tank
(www.theguardian.com)
But will it smell as good as filling up a tank of gas?
this post was submitted on 18 Mar 2025
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It dispenses a small cup of gasoline to sniff while it charges
Maybe with a supercapacitor in the station and a chrging cable with the diameter of a fuel hose.
Not really, just make the vehicle 800v and then use the same Amp limits. That's where everyone is out pacing tesla now. Tesla went for amps, the others went for volts
Energy is amp x volt. Same energy faster is more energy in same time, be it amps or volt. Dunno if your grid can bear it multiple times in each city but still better buffer it. And more volts needs more gum or you get the volts.
I always imagined that portable future wizard (??nuclear??) power would be as simple as unscrewing a 5 gallon cannister from the back of a vehicle and exchanging it at the power/charging station for money. Like the small 20 lb LPG cooking gas tanks. I still think that electric cars are a phase of tech that cannot be sustainable in terms of money and environmental cost and waste for too long and that it is just transitional in our quest. Hydrogen power was always supposed to be the future in my mind.
Hydrogen has extreme structural problems. Hydrogen tanks need constant maintenance, due to how small the molecule is - it's very difficult to contain and prevent corrosion. You then have significant conversion loss between the powerplant-native format of electricity, and the hydrogen. So nothing can be as cheap as pure electricity. Fuelling the car with ammonia that then gets converted to Hydrogen inside the car is the solution to the first problem, but further increases the loss on the second.
What you're describing sounds like a small, high-capacity battery to me! Like a super AA battery. Maybe in 50 years :)
Hydrogen has the same problems tho. Well, except metal/bor hydride, but they have low enery density.
Assuming this is about the same thing as the other BYD charging article I saw a couple days ago, they're using a higher voltage, which would let them charge faster without needing a thicker* cable.
(* The copper need not be thicker, but the insulation might need to be)
The copper need not be thicker, but the insulation might need to be
Exactly. More energy means either more copper or more rubber in the cable.
Rubber is cheap though, and flexible. If it's the size of a gas pump hose, oh well; gas pump hoses are also rubber. As long as they don't have to make the copper ridiculously thick, it shouldn't matter how thick the cable overall is
Is charging speed really the biggest issue with EV's?
More like charging availability imo. Not everyone has a garage to conveniently charge in after a day's work. If you make charging speeds fast enough like with gas, you can negate that though.
If you're going on a long road trip, yes.
But is it really?
A 2000 mile road trip with 20 minute charging breaks is gonna add what? 3 and a half hours on top of 30 hours of driving?
Unless you plan on doing a bunch of meth and speeding across the desert, I don't see a scenario where a regular person does 8+ hours of driving and doesn't take a 20 minute break.
I'd like to add that for the once in 20 years that car sees a 2000 mile road trip, I don't think waiting a little bit is actually an issue.
Take an honest reflection, and think, how often are people driving driving more than 300 miles in a single session.
Then think about yourself in the position of the road trip, are you going to sacrifice the lifespan of your battery to go from 20 minutes to 5 minutes charging time?, (especially since it's likely you will spend more than 5 minutes anyway just going to the bathroom, eating some food, etc.)
It depends on how conveniently the chargers are located. If you have a smaller battery and can go 200km you'll need a charging station every 190km and mountainous terrain will change those distances as well. You many end up charging sooner than needed in order to get to the next charging spot. In reality it isn't as bad as it sounds. I travel the BC interior with my short range EV and the savings in fuel make it worthwhile to stop more often. Even when I pay the high speed charging rates, it is about 1/4 the cost of gasoline per km but takes 15% longer time to get to destination vs our gas vehicle.
Only by perception, but it practicality mattered, we wouldn't be ligging around two tons of steel per person everywhere we went.
Stuff I've heard on naysays:
"The battery will blow up!!!!!"
No, it won't if it's a solid state battery - solid state batteries barely even notice such a charging rate, their temperature might change by half a degree from this monster charging rate.
"You can't supply the power because lines"
Modern large commercial buildings already suck down this amount and more.
"The grid overall can't take 1MW"
So, the 1,000 MW nuclear reactor can't provide 1MW? How about a reactor station with 4 units cranking 4000 MW? How about we add another 1000 in renewables? How about another 800MW with a single gas turbine? How about adding roof solar and a battery bank below ground for the charging station to supplement the power? We haven't even touched hydro or geo yet. Making power is not a problem, and we'll build out the power as we need it.
What about defects in the machine or car? Could that lead to people being struck by lightning coming from the box next to their automobil?
Gas powered cars catch fire all the time
Modern large commercial buildings already suck down this amount and more.
And how mamy cars in said building? How many will be allowed to charge at the same time? Should we expect same grid for large commercial buildings and rural charging stations?
So, the 1,000 MW nuclear reactor can't provide 1MW?
There's some parts inbetween. You would need an extra line just for the charging stations.
Though, a capacitor bank (maybe where the fuel tank was) would be viable.
Countdown until Trump stupidly bans it as it "harms" President Musk.
...
biden basically did that already. ever noticed there are no byds on the road in the us?
i seem to recall it wasn't an outright ban, but unreasonable tariffs on chinese evs specifically. a soft ban, but enough to be as effective.
The official reason for tariffs is government subsidy AFAIK, but in reality the moment they lower the tariffs, US and EU automobile industry is done.
If China is subsidizing the vheicle and we purchase them here, that means we are drawing from China's subsidies.
The claim is this is to save industries but the notion that was need to save specific industry is never questioned.
We're told we're protecting jobs but that's bullshit. We're only protecting the profits of capitalists.
The heavy subsidy by the Chinese government is the reason they would dominate though. The tariffs won’t ever be lifted unless they stop manipulating the prices to be lower than domestic competitors…
Government providing money to create innovative new tech and make it available at a lowe cost to their constituents
Manipulating the prices to be lower
I just wanted to point out the pervasiveness of capitalist propaganda here. They're not manipulating prices, they're helping their people. It just so happens that our capitalistic systems don't do well when someone helps their neighbor because then we can't abuse them.
Now don't get me wrong though, I'm not gonna sit here and tell you the Chinese government does no wrong. But in just this particular case I think we're picking the wrong battle
Not regulating China when they did the same with photovoltaic cells is what destroyed the German photovoltaic industry, which before that was leading.
China helping it's people in a social way destroyed the soul-crushing capitalist system of the western world
Doesn't sound too bad when you put it that way. China could go about it better, with worker rights and whatnot, but the government pumping money into the hands of the everyman is not something I can be against
The reasons why China can produce so much cheaper than Germany are because Germany pays fair wages, has to get enough taxes to pay for free healthcare and the welfare system, provides free access to education (including universities), has very high environmental standards, ...
You may be calling a social democracy "soul-crushing capitalist system". I call it home (not Germany specifically but also a social democracy), freedom for everyone to follow their dreams (you can be completely poor and still study whatever you want (with a side job if subsidies aren't high enough) to get the job you want).
When I need medical help I go to the hospital (or even call an ambulance if it's urgent), get treated, and leave without having to pay anything. For university I'm paying 27€ (~30$) per semester. On the streets you barely see homeless people because there are places where they can go to find food, shelter and advice. Etc.
Paying 50% of my income (only like 30% when not earning that much) in taxes is well worth it. Sure, private insurance might be better for me personally. But it brings me joy to be able to support this system, all those happy people are well worth the slight extra cost.
It is capitalist perspective, but not propaganda.
If there is meant to be capitalist competition then the competitors should not be massively funded by the government. China massively funds their electric car industry, principally because they own them.
That said, US carmakers get Government bailouts all the time.
Right but it's the specific use of the phrase "manipulating prices."
Manipulating has a negative connotation, it's a buzzword used often in capitalist propaganda. They're not manipulating prices, they're subsidizing the industry so that their people can reap the benefits of their taxes in a tangible way. The same way Americans subsidize farmers, and their EV industry. We just don't subsidize it as much.
You are right
They would dominate because they make a good product that isn’t more expensive than it has to be. US car companies have discontinued most affordable options to try and force people to only buy larger, higher end vehicles that most people have no use for. Now they’re mad that international companies are willing to sell the products they refuse to.
Yes, usa car companies are bitches. But it is laughable that you think the reason it isn't more expensive has nothing to do with being subsidized
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how fast would it cause the battery to degrade, though?
That's the beauty of it. Just get a new one every two years like every other electronic device and you won't need to worry about that. Subscription plans will be available.
I wish the batteries were modular/interchangeable. You could just pull into a station, remove the spent battery and replace it with a full one, the spent one can then just get recharged and stored at the station for the next user to change out. You could even bring some extra ones in the trunk for a long trip!
The problem is the form factor. They're broad, flat batteries under the floor of the car, because that's the most available space when you take out the drivetrain. If you wanted to make them swappable, you'd have to sacrifice the space under the hood or the trunk. Or the passenger space. And all that comes with their own safety concerns.
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