Ask Lemmy

Decades ago I was cook #2 at a retreat center. My boss, cook #1, was a quiet, but kind and competent kinda guy.

He’d show me how to do something, and then give me space to get the job done while he took care of other things.

After a while, we just sort of naturally settled into a rhythm of work. We’d both come in around 5am, get breakfast prepped, and then serve breakfast without needing to say much to each other at all. Then we’d do the dishes, again without needing to talk.

Sometime after that we’d eat, and the two of us would have a good conversation. Rinse and repeat for lunch prep, leaving once the PM crew came in to serve that meal.

The mix of being taught skills, trusted to get things done, and both of us appreciating when to be quiet and when to chat… that was everything. I’ve never had a better boss.

He actually cared about us. Our wellbeing, our professional growth. He didn't get too stressed about things. He was forever asking for help with his phone or Word or Excel, but it was so adorable when he decided he wanted to learn to do a thing and just wanted our watchful eye to give him confidence. He in turn built our confidence. He had our backs. He was the best boss I ever had. When I was given staff to look out for, it's him who I tried to emulate. He passed last month, and the service is next month. I'm looking forward to seeing the old gang again even under sad circumstances.

One day boss comes in and sees my colleague. Remarks how early he came in. He said he never left the previous day and planned to just keep working (salaried guy). Said he needed to take the day off, wouldn't have him drive, and he drove his car and had me follow to take the boss back to work after dropping colleague and his car at home.

He consistently tried to break that guy's incessant overworking. Had a lot of respect for him.

Unfortunately he got canned when he kept some stuff from upper management in writing that got upper management in trouble. Not enough trouble to remove their ability to retaliate, but enough to save a few other jobs of folks they were trying to throw under the bus for their mistake.

He was honest with me, and he advocated for me. He would team up with me against upper management and hide his cards from them.

Easy, I had questions, lots of questions and instead of giving me the answers he walked me through the process to get the answer. This wouldn't take long to work through I just needed his guidance. Within a year I was promoted and currently I'm in line for another promotion but due to head count there's no room yet. I'm already the fastest promoted employee in the companies history which is just insane to think about. My previous boss before that couldn't even bother to listen to anything the team had to say...

If you want to be a good leader just take the few extra minutes and listen to what the team needs screw the corporate nonsense and build your team. When you do that your team is able to then lighten the workload coming from other directions so you can focus on corporate nonsense.

Told me that I was welcome to participate in any meeting and that my input was valued, but also told me when a meeting wouldn't involve me or my work and I was free to sit almost any of them out. Even for regularly scheduled meetings, they'd let each of us know if we were actually needed that week or simply welcome. I appreciated being able to decide best where that time should go instead of wasting away in meetings.

Some weeks would be like 15 hours of meetings for the team, with only like 4 hours directly involving me. But I don't have to go wherever my team goes, we're not codependent like that, lol.

Also they listened for input, and actually listened. Even for things outside my expertise, if I had an idea it would be considered and implemented if it was suitable.

Fairly regularly (every other month or so) they'd pop their head in and be like "wanna go for a walk?, I have a gap in 30 min", and we'd have a 15 min walk-n-talk about the work place, time management, work / life balance, teamwork, suggestions and feedback for management - anything about working there that wasn't about the actual work.

They were really all about listening to the employees in every area.

I have liked a few of my bosses. One, nobody else liked working for, because he was sort of crazy, came in hours before us, left hours after us, told us he would keep adding work to our schedule and he expected us to tell him when it was too much. Nobody else took him at his word on that, but I did, took my PTO, worked pretty regular hours, and always on my review he'd give me good marks for doing that.

His insane work ethic broke up his marriage, it was not something to emulate. I think deep down he knew that. So part of what he taught me was the value of work life balance, as a negative role model. But I liked that he wasn't asking us to do more than he did, and he was an absolute genius in a lot of ways, we still hang out sometimes. Rarely, but sometimes.

Listened to me when I made recommendations.

I’ve had more than one good boss that did these things:

Encouraged me to seek other opportunities in the company when higher positions opened up. He/she was good at helping team members find positions that matched their talents.

Didn’t micromanage, but instead hired capable people and trusted them to do their jobs.

Shielded team members from internal nonsense and politics so that we could concentrate on our jobs. It was always “If another manager has a problem with you, tell them to come talk to me.”

Good managers also encourage their team to learn new skills and hone their existing ones. Never stop learning. Even if that learning is just how to navigate the system to get things done.

One was very laid back and tried to take good care of everyone despite being retail and him being laid back. Got me the highest starting pay he could (corporate seriously fought him over 25¢ and he compromised with them for 10¢ instead of just giving up, was only like $12 extra a month with my hours, but hey that's still money). He understood the metrics were bullshit and didn't crawl up my ass about getting them done even when they kept going up and we got new metrics added. Ofc did my best to just to keep him from getting shit for it (corporate certainly didn't believe in raises or rewards for meeting them), but I appreciated he never trickled down their bullshit and stress to me. When a supervisor kept being inappropriate (I have so many stories about this dude, but I'll just say he was 40 trying to badger a 24yro subordinate into dating him via antagonizing the rest of us to peer pressure her into it and I did have an issue with him telling me he had tick bites/rash/whatever and start pulling up his shirt/literally down his pants even after I said NO I WON'T LOOK FOR HIM as some examples I'm a woman and he was a straight guy if that makes any difference though tbh don't believe that was bros being bros behavior anyway cause he did it with the 20s me and not the 60s female coworker), this manager did speak to him multiple times and then help me get HR involved and I didn't get put on his shifts anymore.

Other one was insurance and also went to bat for us about bullshit metrics and was very accommodating, like above and beyond accommodating (during covid new person got hired for wfh and then came out with she didn't have home Internet and manager did get the company to agree to help her out with that, yeah it was ridiculous, but this manager just went beyond like that for everyone). She'd talk to me about problems like I was a person too. I like processes and a lot of times in healthcare at entry/you're the lowest worker on the team it's just a disorganized mess (this place our "processes" were photocopies of past employees notes of "idk it just worked" or "someone told me to do it this way and I don't know why and there's no updates to the department about changes that affect anyone not managers so I'm assuming it works even if this item keeps reappearing as rejected in my queue"). Any questions I had she'd answer or go find the answers for me, if I discovered anything wrong about our processes or to streamline them she'd listen to me and help me refine if needed before implementing. She let me write guides for the department on this stuff which I super appreciated (meant I didn't have to keep fixing other employees work, the amount of stuff that would go through on our end as solved and then come back rejected I had to figure out my first couple months was insane). To explain this a previous job we were using a program no one understood, we just had a binder with steps. Anytime anything changed in the program or someone did something wrong no one knew what to do we'd have to get a manager in there who was NOT good with computers so no one could do work with that program half the shift until he either found some convoluted work around to make the numbers add up that looked like fraud and then send a manager email to his managers about it or he'd admit defeat and all our other managers would have a five minute go at it and then just write an email about it and we never talked about it again lol (we'd have months where we just had to add or subtract numbers to arrive at the right inventory until I assume IT somehow fixed it). I actually sat down and figured out that program (with the power of googling the manual and reading it cause we didn't even have that!!!), wrote a more current comprehensive guide with both how the program works for our needs (in case anything changed again so people knew WHAT each function specifically did) and step-by-steps for our daily use AND appropriate correction steps for mistakes, he read it over, greenlit it, I started typing it up for the employee drive— nah nvm he doesn't like change, scrap it. He did this to me CONSTANTLY and fought me on stuff as basic as "it's 20XX, why are we managing our inventory and machines with a system of 8 clipboards", he just did NOT believe processes could have evolved since 1970 or that anyone not a manager was enough of a person to contribute (he did this to everyone below manager, not just me). So I really, really appreciated the hell out of this other manager when I said hey handing out photocopies of notes from employees who knows how long ago is inefficient and I got to the bottom of some of this stuff, can we make a process to give everyone, she was on board, an active participant, actually followed through and didn't backtrack on it because the world peaked in 1970 and non-managers can't have functioning brains, they show up and do as told.

Last one I'll list tbf wasn't the greatest, like he was a great guy, but not so great with non-performing employees (which tbf we had such high turnover company wide we were always struggling for a fill with at least 1/3rd our positions for various reasons, so I could kind of understand, you need a body to show up for shit pay at a job you have to touch poop, there is very little asking for more than that is going to get you beyond people refusing to show up to your site again as a floater). But this job was also very disorganized and he answered all my questions, when I brought up stuff he'd bring it up at the mandatory monthly meeting (this wasn't crazy stuff, it was like if you get poop on something please make sure to clean it, we will no longer be putting feeding bibs in the same drawer we keep the toilet cleaning rags, etc). He also didn't demand I use my car for pt transport (I was not hired to do this, it was a "fun" thing I found out after I was hired I was expected to get people with walkers into my jeep and not get gas payment to take them around). Like that job was super shitty (figuratively and literally), but he'd hear me out and see what he could do within reason (not cause he didn't want to do more, but like said low pay super shitty job we couldn't even retain employees at). Unfortunately, but understandable, he left and we got in a new manager who did the usual "I have worked at better jobs, everything the past manager did is wrong cause I need to show I was a good hire, instead of getting permanent hires and upping patient care we need to focus on how artistically the towels are folded and make an office area I can exclude you all from by stealing employee equipment so when MY managers come in I look like I run an upscale hotel and not a hospice home". (Fr one of my coworkers just enjoyed folding laundry artistically from tiktok tutorials and this manager decided first we need to be folding them like the gdamn country flag off that and then when she moved to artistic hotel folds with a fan ruffle we needed to store all our towels that you know were regularly used for cleaning piss and shit and stored in an employee closet to that).

More of a rant about my bad managers, but the bar has honestly been in hell for me so all these managers stuck out. They treated me as a person and they wanted me to succeed, they supported me wanting our department to succeed which is honestly the rarest fucking shit I ever see. We have such bad training in my field at my level (idk might also be bad at higher levels, I'm just not there) and I've had a lot of managers not want anyone to do the job right for various reasons I really appreciate when they let the team all help each other up. Maybe a person doesn't take that in, but the insurance one I had another coworker like me and holy fuck it was amazing with my manager facilitating. By the time I left between us we'd figured out most stuff and written guides so onboarding was SO MUCH EASIER. We saw 0 compensation for this and tbh it frustratingly tanked our numbers for metrics cause we'd solve stuff first try instead of needing three goes at it (which counted as three metrics), but gdamn it felt rewarding to know we'd solved an issue and trained the department on it so a patient didn't have to get their care delayed or downgraded (when I started if you couldn't get something passed through you'd do 2-3 days of meds until you hoped someone figured it out, absolutely insane) until something changed again. Like both of us spent literal HOURS on the phone working these things out which isn't how it should be, but getting them down to 20min processes was amazing and I take pride in that.

The best boss I ever had:

Let me set my own hours, gave me complete freedom in how I worked, allowed me to not take on jobs I didnt want, allowed me to set my own pay.

That boss was me. I was self employed.

• Worked for their local team, and was quite happy to challenge/push back on unreasonable top-down asks.
• Quite happy to admit they didn't know stuff and asked for advice and ideas - and, of course, credited the appropriate team members for things that worked, but took responsibility themselves if things didn't go well.
• Displayed authentic emotions and enthusiasm for the work, rather that present a bland corporate mask.

Understood that I was brought in as a subject matter expert to fix a colossal fuck up from a previous employee. Every standup started with 'What do you need and how do I get it to you.'

When there was a conflict between employees due to one employee being a complete jackass they dealt with the jackass instead of telling everyone else that they have to accommodate the jackass because 'that is just how they are'.

Fully considered any idea I brought up in earnest, and explained out loud his thought process on why the idea would or would not be helpful.

Gave me enough autonomy to get things done, and he would occasionally check in and was always available for support whenever I hit a roadblock.

My best boss ever was a very involved and fair professional man (mostly) while on the clock and an absolute pimp the second he was off the clock.

The man drove a clapped out impala with paint chips and 200k miles. He always came in a little early and was always high energy. He was always listening to the different departments issues and he would side with us against customers when it was appropriate, but he would recognize when that wasn't the best path and he would help explain it to the staff afterwards why he chose to bend the rule in that situation.

He understood human mistakes like randomly being late or forgetting to punch back in from lunch here or there, but he was also very firm with people who were repeat offenders.

One time we had a guy stealing stuff in the back corner of the store and security called it out over the walkie. I watched him sprint up to the front where the cameras were and tell the security to point them somewhere else for a moment. Then he ran back and FLIPPED this thief over his shoulder before telling him to get the fuck out. The guy scurried out and we never saw him again.

Then one day I saw him roll up to work on his day off to pick something up. I shit you not this man rocked up in a MINT black Escalade on huge mirror shined rims. He hopped out with a fur coat on over his immaculate white suit. He walked around and let out his GORGEOUS wife who was like half his size. She wrapped around his arm and he walked in like he owned the world.

We became good enough friends over the years I worked there that eventually I got invited to his house for a party. The man had a 300 gallon SHARK tank right in front of the door to his house. It's the first thing anyone sees when they enter his house.

He was firm with people, but understanding. He allowed his staff to have fun as long as the important tasks were getting done. He communicated clearly with everyone. He took concerns about issues with other managers and leaders that worked directly under him seriously. He knew what he was talking about and he had a certain charm about him with both customers and employees. To this very day he's the only boss I ever had where everyone I knew liked him.

When he left the company for a better paying job a lot of us transferred to other locations or just left the company ourselves as well.

I still have him on Facebook and it seems he's got a beautiful family and that makes me happy. He deserves all of it.

He literally doesn't care about his reputation. I asked him once why he became boss, and he said "at one point you may notice your boss is shitty at his job so you need to do it on your own". Also he is an ex programmer doing project management, which is very refreshing compared to ex project manager who are doing project management.

I'm a worker that asks a lot of questions and gets frustrated when i don't understand why things are done a certain way. The best boss/manager I had actually sat down with me and explained in a friendly manner when I had questions instead of dismissing me. They helped me when they saw I was just trying to understand to do my job better.

I've had a few good ones. They respected my time, talked to me like a person, treated me how they wanted to be treated, didn't ask me to do anything outside of my job description without compensation, and acted like we were a team instead of boss/employee.

I had one real shitty job I stayed in because my supervisor was fantastic. Every shift, no matter how much of a clusterfuck it was, he genuinely thanked every single employee for their time.

They asked me to do things instead of telling me to do things.

He was explicit about it. He said, I know I'm your boss, I can't just say go do this thing, but I have found I get better results and have happier co-workers when I ask you to do the things I need you to do instead of telling you to do the things I need you to do.

A specific example would be, instead of, "please clean the lobby", Saying, xwill you go clean the lobby for me, please?"

And it's one of those things that's really, really subtle and really minor. It only takes a small amount of adjustment in it in the way that you speak, and it yields excellent results.

Understood motivation and didn't care about pointless bullshit. Helps he was the co-owner of the company. He cared about growth and revenue and having a team motivated to achieve all that. He didn't care how or where or when I did the work, or having procedures for promotions.

The rule was - line goes up everyone gets a raise.

We talked about woodworking in our one on one meetings instead of my "career goals"

Bosses that listen to their employees, take their issues, suggestions, and concerns into actual consideration, and who don't have ego/dick-swinging personality issues are the best bosses. Also, they don't yell unnecessarily.

Chill and kind. If I said I didn't want to travel, they took that into consideration.

Shot me with a nerf gun.

The CEO of NCL mopped up the floor with me and another guy when working on the Pride of America once. My supervisor just yelled at us like we made him do it tho :/