Privacy has become a very important issue in modern society, with companies and governments constantly abusing their power, more and more people are waking up to the importance of digital privacy.
In this community everyone is welcome to post links and discuss topics related to privacy.
much thanks to @gary_host_laptop for the logo design :)
Ensure you present your arguments in a way that doesnt make your recipient seem like a bad person because of their belief.
Louis Rossmann made a good video on activism and how to get someone to care about something.
Inviduous link: https://yewtu.be/watch?v=cir-gJDcC1o
YouTube link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cir-gJDcC1o
Most people are all like: "derp derp! Nothing to hide nothing to fear duuuuur 🤤". There's no reasoning with them. Don't beat yourself up over it.
Honestly, there are a lot of people whom I met believe that google can track/store all their information since they believe that they are too insignificant for that data to matter. Hard to change that mindset in the first place.
What i tend to do is just complain about how much resources trackers/spyware take up on my Phone/Computers, which tends to convience people better than just doing a "but mah privacy". More people are united about a less laggier computer/phone after all lol.
I just compare it to having a stalker. Imagine being in your bedroom and having someone looking at you from outside the window. Now, would you be ok with it if the person was invisible?
People never want to be convinced of anything that says they should do something differently than how they currently do it. Best you can do is lead by example. Talk about benefits of your way of doing things if they ask, or if it is very relevant to the conversation. Otherwise, don't broach those topics. To take it a step further, if people start complaining to you about problems, before you offer solutions, ask them if they are just venting, or if they are looking for advice or suggestions. Now that you have your instructions on how to change what you are doing, please follow them to the letter, without deviation ;P
Well said, I was thinking maybe the entire reason OPs charisma is -1 is because they're out there trying to convince people to do something instead of just doing their own thing.
I relate to this. unfortunately there is nothing you can do. Most people simply just do not fucking care. The vast majority actually. Just get used to feeling like a weirdo or just stop mentioning it. The latter is probably better. I don't even bother anymore. I know exactly what not to say since I know what will just get me weird looks or have people tell me to take off my tin foil hat. It sucks but it is what it is.
If you're in the US, you could point to the news. Even garden variety libs should be a little nervous about the increasing police state
pull up embarasing posts from years ago to prove a point
The thing is, people by and large don't want to be convinced. They want their convenience and ease of use, they don't want to learn a whole new paradigm, least of all one that requires constant vigilance and understanding of the risks. I can't blame them, they have a lot on their mind, and their existing skill set might not be relevant to privacy issues. People in general resist change and effort. I do. You do too.
It's less about you, and more about them. People will only start taking steps when it all clicks for them. What the catalyst will be is impossible to tell, since people are wired differently. All we can do is talk about privacy and advocate for it with people who are willing to have the discussions. Don't expect to go in and change people's minds. It's horribly difficult and you will be disappointed. Instead, think of it as giving people perspectives and starting points for their own journeys. If something happens and they are finally willing to start doing the work, they will at least have some context and words, labels to use. They may even come to you for more. They may not.
Important point to think about. People want comvience and comfort. I think we have gotten to the point where switching to privacy respecting options is easy and painless. Using signal is easy, using lemmy is easy, and even installing linux and other os is easy. Its just getting people to spend the time to do it. Even im moving slow as hell.
Thats truu, its more about the other people. I think i get distressed because people dont care and I should stop it🤣🤣🤣
Thank you so much
The autistic trait that comes back to bite me most often is the unshakeable confidence that if I just show someone the truth, they'll believe me.
This has bounced around in my skull since I read it in a meme here. I hate how true it is.
"Easy and painless" depends on your point of view, and we here tend to be biased. For example, just a couple of months ago I had to explain to "a normal person" how to make backup copies of a folder to a pen drive. She did not want additional backup software (and I still don't know if W10 would have had the functionality out-of-the-box). Copypasting files was too difficult. In the end she decided to go with "save as", which sounded like a horrible idea to me, since she'couldn't remember how to open anything in Word that wasn't in the recently used list when starting the software, and she is going to lose track of which file is which at some point. I doubt it would be "easy and painless" for people like her, who are very common outside our little bubble.
Making someone change their opinion is not a sprint, but a marathon. State your opinion openly when relevant, don't get into an argument, let it brew, mention it again when it comes up, live as you "preach". That person I mentioned? Happily using Signal with me. Eager(!) to try Linux once W10 support runs out. I've told her I'll install Mint DE on my laptop and loan it to her for unhurried testing and learning this summer while having her familiar backup to lean on if it gets difficult, and to install the same on her own computer when the support runs out, if she still wants me to.
Using signal is easy,
Only works if everyone else uses it too which won't happen.
using lemmy is easy,
Figuring out which server to join and app to use may not be so easy. I see confused people on Lemmy asking what instance is best.
installing linux and other os is easy.
Installing wasn't really ever the issue. It's using them that's the issue.
Honestly, I just don't try to do anything like this at all. I don't want to be a missionary for privacy rights, and if people decide to upload their entire life to Google's servers, then I just shrug my shoulders and move on, because I don't really care what others do lol.
Start by your own privacy.
I boarded that train about twenty years ago. I tried the evangelizing route. I failed miserably. Which led me to care for myself first and foremost.
I started by abandoning Windows. Not of my own volition; I bought a computer that had no OS. Enter Linux. None of my family, friends or acquaintances understood. It was all about the convinience. When my machines started outperforming while outliving theirs, it caused a ripple.
Then came the usual slew of questions: where can I get a free anti-virus, office, media reader, whatever? That was when I introduced FOSS. After the initial resistance, things just settled into place. LibreOffice works. VLC works. PeaZip works. Thunderbird works. Etc.
When smartphones became a thing, I started moving as fast as I could towards FOSS. This made things a bit more laughable as "free" android applications are ubiquous. But they fill your phone with junk and ads. While my apps provided me ease of use, safety, security and privacy.
But when push came to shove, I just refused to join. First I left FBMessenger. I never boarded Whatsapp. I never entered Instagram or any major social networks. I discovered Signal and remained there.
It's my way or no way.
We share the goal of making the world more private. I’m not trying to be cheeky or mean. I’m genuinely curious. Would you be against reading to learn how to talk more compellingly?
I think if you just publicly practise decent privacy, people will be more inclined to do the same. e.g. all my friends know I'm not on WhatsApp and don't use proprietary software in general. They know to talk to me on other platforms, and the fact that I'm like this means that others will likely feel more able to do the same if they are inclined. Nobody ever told me to care about privacy; I have always thought it was creepy if others can see all my personal business. I can't imagine that that's such a rare innate mindset to have, so other people who feel the same way should feel more able to put that into practice if they see you doing so. If they really want to broadcast all their personal data to the state and tech companies then they are within their right to, and I don't see the point in trying to convince them to not do what they want to do.
One thing I love about Germany is that people have this understanding where privacy is fundamental and not something to argue about. Because they know being able to easily identify people leads to disaster. It’s just about a political swing away.
I typically point to the real world and that seems to work:
None of them are super safe, but you still follow these precautions. All we ask is to be as careful on the internet.
Those things are really intuitive, and anyone should be able to understand them. The digital world is completely different and alien, which makes it difficult to think about. People don’t understand it, so they can’t be expected to have a rational opinion about it.
"You don't care about privacy? Why not give me your bank login, then"
More seriously, You don't have to convince people of anything. Sooner than later some huge leak will happen or anythign more intimate that will still impact them, say, like the story of this dad sending a pic of some intimate part of their sick kid's to their doctor and being flagged by Google AI and being arrested for sharing child porn. And then they will realize why it mattered to protect our privacy.
That truu, I've recently started my privacy journey, so im slowly switching to alternative to trying to show them to people. Its like a new found interest.
That article crazyy thoooo😭😭😭 thats wilddd.
That truu, I’ve recently started my privacy journey,
That's a great decision, imho.
I made the same choice a few years ago. Every little step counts. I will never be an expert or feel that safe using digital tech but I quit using many tools and services I realized I can't trust at all, which is already something. And it all started by one small first step.
so im slowly switching to alternative to trying to show them to people.
Showing them is a good idea, preaching them to do what you're doing is probably not that great an idea. Think about it, when was the last time you sincerely changed your mind because someone was forcing you to listen to them or was harassing you. What most probably happened is that you told more or less politely to funk themselves ;)
That article
... is terrifying, imho and it is certainly not the kind of society I want to live in.
There is also a much older story about Amazon deleting the novel 1984 from the kindle of customers having legally purchased it (they were refunded but still that doesn't change what happened). This kind of events is what started my journey toward a more privacy and ownership-respecting usage of digital tools. That's also what helped me switch back to analog wherever it was doable (Amazon can't delete a printed book from my bookshelves).
You can lead a horse to water but you can not make it drink.
That do be truu. Can just educate and wait for them to figure out!
Stalk their social media accounts to prove a point.
Do people need to care?
Do what you need to to secure your privacy, and let people know how much of a travesty it is that their privacy and rights are being stripped away, but at the end of the day they're their own people and so if they choose not to care that's their decision, and it's not up to you to choose how they're allowed to think or live their lives, even if it appears obviously wrong and short-sighted to you or I
Thats truu. Yeah if people dont want to do it, they wont🤣 unforrunately.
Yeah im gonna work on myself. I really want a fairphone, but thats gonna take time😭😭 but meanwhile i try to use only foss and privacy respecting apps🙌 i gotta try my best
But anything I can specifically say that works best in planting a seed in people's mind?
'It fails to include a libre software license text file. We do not control it, anti-libre software. Don't fall for their scam.'
You need to make them ask you. People are bored of privacy. They will not ask you about privacy. Also, people care less about getting and more about losing. Listen for complains and always link back to software freedom.
Never say privacy. Never say anything technical, a derailment strategy used against us. Never say 'open source'. This misses the point of libre software. Say simple words, scam and abuse.
Here's more: https://lemmy.world/post/21620691
I am privacy conscious and care about privacy even though I don't care too much about my own personal privacy just for privacy's sake.
Privacy advocacy runs deeper than just protecting your own data. Convincing someone to care about "their privacy" is more straightforward when they face a real threat. For example, a journalist in Mexico writing about a politician linked to organized crime has every reason to avoid being easily tracked. That person is not going to post their location on Facebook.
But most people aren't under direct threat. If you read my texts, you'll find casual conversations with family and dinner plans. I'm not afraid of someone showing up at my door, so I’m fine sharing my address to get a package delivered. Getting ads is a minor annoyance.
Still, I care about privacy. Not necessarily mine, but privacy as a principle. I care about what surveillance capitalism does to society. Even if my personal threat model is easy, I want tools and systems to exist for people with harder ones. Privacy is part of the kind of world I think we should live in, and its erosion usually points to larger structural problems.
So back to the question. It's easier to convince someone to care about privacy if they feel directly threatened. But if they don’t, you need something else to make them give up convenience in the name of privacy. That something is ideology. You're asking how to shift someone's ideological framework. That’s hard, and not something you can do for them. You can recommend good material, share your reasoning, explain what led you to care. But they have to engage with the ideas themselves. Like with exercise, you can’t build someone’s muscles for them. You can’t implant the ideology, but you can create the conditions for it to take root.
I gave up on convincing people about privacy and all that. They don’t care and say the old crap “I have nothing to hide” but seem utterly perplexed when you tell them Facebook scandals (and then still keep using it).
People have chosen easy of use and laziness over privacy.
Thats truu esp with them using data from facebook to kidnapp people. That alone was like a hold up.
But i feel like using provacy respecting options is easy nowadays. But people get stuck in their ways.