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Finnish presidential home and presidential castle raise trans inclusive pride flags for a week. (lemmy.ml)

submitted 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) by Merlu@lemmy.ml to c/upliftingnews@lemmy.world

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[–] renegadespork@lemmy.jelliefrontier.net 36 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (2 children)

For those that view this particular version of the pride flag redundant: Yes, you are technically correct. The rainbow is supposed to symbolize inclusion.

However, recent political movements seek to divide and exclude particular groups from the queer community, namely trans people. By choosing a flag that explicitly includes those colors, you are explicitly denouncing that division.

[–] Wahots@pawb.social 5 points 2 days ago

Also, the triangle part is just really cool as well. I love both, but the progress pride one feels much more officially flaggy to me :)

[–] Lucidlethargy@sh.itjust.works 6 points 3 days ago (3 children)

And by choosing to accept the rainbow flag as all inclusive, you also denounce division.

The idea that we need to specifically call out everyone in need of coverage is asinine, and in itself divisive.

[–] jumjummy@lemmy.world 10 points 3 days ago

This flag is better since there are a surprising number of gay people who are anti-trans. Completely bananas if you ask me.

[–] renegadespork@lemmy.jelliefrontier.net 12 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

This is the same argument people use for “all lives matter” and anti-DEI.

In a perfect world, it should be equal, but to make this argument is ignoring the reality that it’s not.

[–] systemglitch@lemmy.world 0 points 3 days ago

Truth.

[–] TheLeadenSea@sh.itjust.works 46 points 4 days ago (4 children)

The rainbow flag is already trans inclusive, the rainbow includes everyone

[–] Aatube@kbin.melroy.org 42 points 4 days ago (2 children)

With the current significance of the movement represented by the "LGB Alliance" I don't think it's undue to stress the T.

[–] Lucidlethargy@sh.itjust.works 9 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

LGBTQ+ is 100% covered by the rainbow flag. It is absolutely ridiculous to claim otherwise.

This is like insisting the American flag is only for Republicans.

[–] Aatube@kbin.melroy.org 9 points 3 days ago

I'm not saying it's not covered; I'm saying the "progressive" flags emphasize it in a time when some are attempting to co-opt the rainbow to marginalize them.

[+] mnemonicmonkeys@sh.itjust.works -14 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

Tbf, a lot of that was driven by the wave of transwomen getting mad that lesbians aren't attracted to them. And I never saw any pushback against these posts in the trans community.

Was there right-wing groups amplifying the reach of these comments? Yes. Should the entire trans community suffer for a small number of assholes among their ranks? Hell no.

Regardless, the lack of pushback in the trans community and its effects shows the need for groups to self-regulate to some degree. There's assholes in every group, and pretending that there aren't is dangerous.

[–] Aatube@kbin.melroy.org 4 points 3 days ago (1 children)

huh, sauce? I've never heard of any of that.

[–] mnemonicmonkeys@sh.itjust.works -2 points 3 days ago (1 children)

The BBC has an article that gives a decent overview: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-57853385

And Vice isn't doing anyone favors by leaning into the transphobia spin: https://www.vice.com/en/article/whats-wrong-with-the-no-trans-dating-preference-debate/

A lot of this is also from personal memory. I was plugged into a lot of different communities 2018-2021on all sides of the aisle.

Thankfully people aren't yelling at lesbians about this anymore, at least not what I've seen. Unfortunately, the damage has already been done.

Also unfortunately, it seems that people aren't understanding the point of my original comment. And it's that every group has some number of assholes in it, and it's up to the group as a whole to make sure that said assholes don't ruin their reputation.

This isn't meant to bash transpeople. It's meant as a cautionary tale to avoid letting a minority of assholes set how everyone else sees the group.

[–] shinyrat@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

That BBC article does not give a decent overview. It's hard to imagine a worse source. Google "lily cade BBC" and you'll see what I mean

[–] mnemonicmonkeys@sh.itjust.works -2 points 2 days ago

It's better than the victim blaming that the Vice article participates in

[–] meliaesc@lemmy.world 5 points 3 days ago (1 children)

My autisitic son insists that pink isn't a real color and has no business being included in any rainbow.

[–] Dasus@lemmy.world 1 points 2 days ago

It doesn't have a corresponding wavelength in the spectrum of visible light, but as we perceive it to be there and have a name for it, it doesn't really matter that there's no specific wavelength it corresponds to.

By that metric abstract things likely love, justice, duty, honour, could be argued to not be real either. Can't touch them or there's no corresponding physical thing in the world to measure them.

[–] RageAgainstTheRich@lemmy.world 15 points 4 days ago (1 children)

But its nice to have the actual colors on it though. I like switching between the 2 because they both look really nice.

[–] Aatube@kbin.melroy.org 9 points 4 days ago (2 children)

As a matter of color I don't like the abrupt transition from pastel cyan to brown... but it's nice for what it means.

I like this Julia Feliz diagonal one much better: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:New_Pride_Flag_by_Julia_Feliz_2018.svg

idk it doesn't seem so jarring to me that way. Maybe because the absence of the bend avoids emphasizing the contact and thus contrast with the pastel cyan.

[–] Ziglin@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I believe the triangle having that shape is relevant because of other pride flags with that layout (demisexual at least) but I do find the one you posted a little nicer.

I don't really understand why progress pride flag with the intersex flag is so rare though either.

[–] Aatube@kbin.melroy.org 2 points 1 day ago

The chevron is a shape present in many flags in general.

I don't really understand why progress pride flag with the intersex flag is so rare though either.

Me neither.

[–] RamblingPanda@lemmynsfw.com 6 points 3 days ago (1 children)

To me, this looks like it would cancel the rainbow.

[–] Bgugi@lemmy.world 2 points 3 days ago

Definitely a strong motif of "covering up" the original rainbow/message. Black is by far the largest element. And the fold in forward implies the symmetry of the trans flag, this just completely ignores it.

[–] huppakee@feddit.nl 8 points 3 days ago

I agree, we dont need more than the rainbow flag. But I feel people can put on it whatever they want. Except their genitals maybe.

[–] AngryCommieKender@lemmy.world 8 points 3 days ago

Had to reread that headline 3 times to not have my brain turn "presidential castle," into "presidential cattle."

[–] stinky@redlemmy.com 5 points 3 days ago

Good

[–] Churbleyimyam@lemm.ee 3 points 4 days ago

Coolest flag

[–] TimewornTraveler@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Are these gestures empty or meaningful?

[–] meliaesc@lemmy.world 4 points 3 days ago (1 children)

If the White House in the US raised the same flag today, would it have meaning?

[–] TimewornTraveler@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

It absolutely would not. There would need to be something behind it.

Would it have meaning during a Democratic government though?

[–] meliaesc@lemmy.world 3 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Done today, it would acknowledge the valid existence of different sexual and gender identities, which would be an absolutely monumental shift in messaging. Even during Democratic leadership, it would be signal support for rights and equality, instead of diagnosis and demonizing.

[–] acockworkorange@mander.xyz 2 points 2 days ago

Actions are louder than words though. It's a valid question to ask, i.e. "are there actions accompanying the discourse?"

[–] Lemminary@lemmy.world -5 points 3 days ago (3 children)

Did it have to be one of those ugly and redundant derivatives of the perfectly fine rainbow flag of diversity?

[–] Natanox@discuss.tchncs.de 18 points 3 days ago

Given fascism currently focuses on trans and black/non-white people and actively tries to separare them from the community: Yes. Yes it did.

[–] lietuva@lemmy.world 2 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

whoever designed the flag probably figured they have to add all the colors, so all of them would feel included and none of them would feel offended

[–] Ziglin@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago

If that were the case there would be a lot more.

[–] yeather@lemmy.ca 4 points 3 days ago (1 children)

The black and brown also represent a completely different movement, it should just be the rainbow flag.

[–] Bgugi@lemmy.world -2 points 3 days ago (1 children)

But did you know black people can be gay? Betcha didn't. Glad we added that to the flag to remind you.

[–] yeather@lemmy.ca 1 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Ok, but did you know that Mongolian people could be gay? Where is there stripe? Did you know Comanche Native Americans couls be gay? Where is theres? Did you know Irish people could be gay? Where is there stripe?

[–] Bgugi@lemmy.world 1 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Irish people could be gay

We checked, zero gay. May sound strange, but you can't argue with science.

[–] Ziglin@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago

You clearly forgot the leprechauns.

[–] Fleur_@aussie.zone -1 points 3 days ago (1 children)

This flag fucking sucks. You'd think gay people could design a flag worth a damn but all they've done is slap ugly ass colour conflicts on an already colour saturated base.

Like take a look at the original lesbian flag before suddenly the community decided corporate branding was ideal theme to mimic.

[–] Bgugi@lemmy.world 3 points 3 days ago

It's the ol' "keep adding elements until everything is explicitly included" problem in vexillology.

But hey, it's a great way to keep selling new merch every few years...