this post was submitted on 21 Aug 2025
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top 19 comments
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[–] observantTrapezium@lemmy.ca 4 points 1 day ago (1 children)

The plot was interesting, the format was bad, I'll go with 5/10 for this one, so just an OK episode...

I get that they are doing a lot of "experiments" with this show, I don't think it was a successful one. Too much focus on nonsense.

[–] MisanthropiCynic@lemmy.today 3 points 1 day ago

I found the plot interesting enough to merit a full episode. The documentary distracted too much from that

[–] bgainor@thelemmy.club 8 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I feel like there was a kernel of a good episode in there, or maybe kernels of several episodes. I'm not opposed to the documentary angle per se, and it fits in with SNW's general willingness to experiment, but I have a difficult time imagining that a documentarian would actually edit the finished product that way, on top of the other stuff. There's definitely room to critique Starfleet and the Federation, but this episode really feels like it was missing some important chunks.

[–] sanzky@beehaw.org 4 points 1 day ago

I think the writers were too committed to the documentary format but since documentaries don’t switch their mind half way, they got the worst of all options. the format does not work and they lost the opportunity to use a good story and critique starfleet in an interesting way.

[–] SpaceScotsman@startrek.website 10 points 3 days ago (2 children)

I really did not enjoy this one.

The "documentary" that ends up being made feels like the worst kind of propaganda that tries to feign a sense of "there's two sides to every argument", all while clearly pushing in favour of the agenda the documentary initially tried to critique anyway. It felt at moments like a military recruitment advertisement. I would not choose to watch such a documentary in real life, and watching it within a star trek episode just feels like I've wasted my time.

The writing makes use of the idea of military censorship and a film that jump cuts around to not so cleverly hide the fact that the writers are missing a plot. We are presented with a people in conflict, who abuse a creature to create a weapon. We have no other information about the conflict, beyond "there's mass casualties". No explanation of why starfleet is involved beyond "starfleet is here to help". No explanation why they chose to make that kind of weapon in particular. On the matter of the alien war we are left to fill the gaps ourselves entirely, and because our in-universe director is acting in the role of an unreliable narrator, we have no idea if any of what ended up in the film they ended up making can even be trusted. That FOIA disclaimer at the start could be just as real as those films that say "based on a true story" when they are anything but.

We did get some good character development, particularly with Ortegas finally being up front and open about what she's been through recently. But not really enough for it to feel like it matters. Ditto Uhura and Spock. Furthermore, despite self-harm and suicide being a central theme of the episode, other than an incredibly brief argument with the alien scientists about whether thier victim should be allowed to commit suicide, it's not really debated. The crew just accept that they need to do an assisted suicide, and that's that. Fair enough, if that's how human morals work centuries from now, but then it leads again to an episode without a useful plot. For contrast, multiple past star trek series have had their take on this topic and done a much better job.

After watching this I am left unsure what wider contribution this episode is meant to make to the series. For all the silliness of the comedy episodes, at least they were entertaining to watch and usually had at least one major plot development by the end. This one could have been cut from the season roster and nothing would have been lost.

Random assorted notes:

  • The decoded alien vocalisations kind of sounded like whalesong to me. Perfect opportunity for some cetecean ops, right? nope.
  • Beto is shown to be incredibly manipulative, especially with recording people who don't want to be recorded. Why on earth is he not in the brig?
  • Many times in the episode the direction attempts to foreshadow someone dying. I thought for a moment the writers were going to be brave and kill off someone in the crew. Particularly when chapel and spock are stretchered in with uhura standing there in shock. Nope, it's the random alien of the week instead.
  • The alien visuals, both the CG and prosthetics were very nice. I like the idea of a species that, like some animals on earth, begins life underwater and then metamorphoses into something that lives in a completely different environment out of water. That was possibly the only highlight of the episode for me.

Looking forward to the next one, it can't possibly be worse than this.

I feel like this could have been a great episode, if it wasn't a documentary and was just written as a normal episode. Most of the quirks of the documentary really distracted me and I felt like they got in the way a bit.

There's a tonne of icky ambiguity to this one...which is honestly what I like about it, though I totally get why it's not to everyone's liking.

[–] Kabutor@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 3 days ago

Too much docudrama for my taste, I really enjoyed Uhura and how she sees trough Beto.

The ending was emotive, and that for me was the best part, people are in Starfleet, they have their reasons, but the main one is that the like the Federation and they fight to preserve it, even die if needed.

[–] Stormygeddon@startrek.website 5 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Bold choice to have an in universe documentary made by an in universe bad/unprofessional documentarian. It makes the episode feel bad.

Also feels like 10 or so minutes were redacted considering the short length.

"Documentarian with an agenda" is a real type of documentarian - maybe the majority.

His biggest sin was probably making a doc that was secretly about himself...

[–] ValueSubtracted@startrek.website 8 points 3 days ago (2 children)

After being underwhelmed last week, I enjoyed this one a lot.

I appreciated Beto cutting straight to the unspoken conflict at the heart of this franchise - Star Trek is kind of colonialist/imperialist.

When they got to the conclusion, my initial reaction is that "the people are the difference" was sort of trite...but what else is there, really? These are people who are willing to put their morality first, even as they walk an uneasy line.

[–] observantTrapezium@lemmy.ca 7 points 1 day ago

I think exploring the idea of the Federation as an imperialist power is interesting, but done very poorly here. Thinking back to DS9 and how it dealt with moral questions. Beto is such a random character, exploring this from his perspective feels so meaningless.

[–] StillPaisleyCat@startrek.website 3 points 2 days ago (1 children)

My partner and I really liked this one.

We both think it’s in the top rank of Star Trek episodes. In my view it may be the best of SNW to date.

It definitely should be the ‘For Your Consideration’ episode of this season.

The direction was excellent. This was one of the best dramatic performances from Mount as Pike since season two of Discovery.

My sense is that some viewers were mistaking the C-plot about the warring groups, for the A-plot about the Enterprise officers response to the ethical choice between orders and the free will of a sentient being or the B-plot about the making of the documentary.

I can’t agree that the episode was too short. The best Trek episodes are tightly rendered and leave lots of room for thought after.

[–] bgainor@thelemmy.club 2 points 1 day ago (2 children)

The part about the officers' ethical decision should have been the A-plot, but the episode basically forced the documentary angle on us as the A-plot. I think that's the fundamental problem; if this had just been an episode about them wrestling with the ethical ramifications of using a sentient creature as a weapon, it would have been top-tier Star Trek.

[–] Soupbreaker@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I enjoyed the episode, but I agree that the documentary framing device seemed to preclude any serious discussion of the ethical problem, like you'd get in the 1701-D's conference (briefing?) room. Instead, we got a lot of Pike saying "Orders is orders!"

We're not privy to Pike's communications with Starfleet, there's little nuance to any discussion of the issue we do see, and the Lutani get so little screen time, they're practically 2d.

I liked the novelty of the format, and I generally enjoy the way SNW mixes things up. I do think it often leans too far into style, to the detriment of substance.

Frankly, we saw more in Pike’s face and heard more in his tone of voice — grim and determined - than any debates might have given us.

We were shown rather than told, and that’s a good thing.

This was arguably Anson Mount’s best, most sincere, performance as Pike since Discovery season two. There’s been a glibness in Pike in SNW. Both episodes 5 and 6 this season have turned that around.

It was also another episode where Una showed that she really was Pike’s First Officer and principal advisor.

[–] StillPaisleyCat@startrek.website 3 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I don’t see the documentary as the A-plot at all.

It was constantly present as a frame, but the episode wasn’t primarily about the documentary - it was primarily about how Starfleet captains and senior crew wrestle with ethical decisions when their orders do not align with their values, and how they seek to find information that can provide a rationale to pursue an alternative course of action.

Basically, it showed how important the crew that is present in the situation is and how that makes Starfleet more than just a military organization serving a military mission.

[–] dethstrobe@startrek.website 3 points 23 hours ago

I agree, the documentary was simply a framing device. I think it was an interesting decision as well. The moral quandaries are not taking a backseat just because the framing device is so front and center.

I think an entire series framed like this could be very interesting with an embedded reporter creating a documentary on the on goings of a Starfleet ship.

Honestly, as an audiance we are a bit spoiled with the all seeing eye, but that's not necessarily how the average citizen in the Federation sees it.

[–] khaosworks@startrek.website 3 points 3 days ago