People tweeting stuff. We allow tweets from anyone.
RULES:
I mean, there are jobs where the first posters advice is relevant. I’m a musician, and there are just rehearsals I cannot miss. When I am working with a high school, I cant take PTO during key production days or performances because I am the only person at the place that can do exactly what I do: that’s why they hired me.
I remind my team about their vacation and floater days on a quarterly basis and all them to be used. All I ask for is time for me to pivot as needed and if you have ongoing projects that you reschedule planned meetings, document as you go, and ensure access is available to the rest of the team if needed.
I've had employees in the past who I've sat down and directly asked them to take time off (paid) because they were burning out and would otherwise push through it. I've even reminded some of available leaves of absence for situations in their personal lives.
If the business can't continue without any one person, then the business isn't sustainable as-is and that's not fair to anyone. Hire more people if it's coverage or train your people if there's skill gaps. Documentation of systems and processes is also crucial.
I think managers like you are important for helping cultivate perspectives that are better situated to challenge various bullshit under capitalism. Whilst some workplaces or managers actively make it difficult for people to take their earned vacation days, there are also plenty of places that will apply a passive pressure that causes people being disinclined to take time off. Working in the first kind of place can make you more vulnerable to the insidiousness of the second workplace.
Sometimes, in that second kind of workplace, when you insist on taking your vacation days, the pressure morphs into more overtime coercion, but often, there ends up being no repercussions — often, they don't want to fight people on it, so they rely on workers effectively oppressing themselves.
The more people that are practiced at taking what they're entitled to, the easier it is to resist shitty workplaces that try to deny us what few privileges our contracts entitle us.
I work on a business communication tool. You know those things you have in your phone that people send messages to and expect you to answer.
When I leave my computer, that's it, I'm done. I don't have the application on my phone. I didn't check email or messages after 5 or 6 and most days I work for a few hours before I check them.
On weekends, I turn off my computer.
I've been doing this for years now. No one notices, or if they do they are smart enough to not bring it up.
I came up in a world where we were the ones introducing Yahoo and AOL into the business world, I had a phone on my desk that was essential, and email was king. I rarely had a laptop and they were quite rare. When you left the office, it was expected that you were some for the day.
The grind culture over the last decade or so is insane. It is insane that people will give over half their time to a company that would show them the door in an instant.
Yes, you should do everything possible to set up your team and colleagues for success when you take your PTO, but that should never require a tether to the office.
It's not just the last decade. Office Space came out 25 years ago! We're more connected now, but this ridiculous work culture in the US has existed since at least the 1980s.
I'm glad we have some balance here in Europe.
I take the other members of the team into consideration. It does make sense since I work with them fives days a week, don't want to make shit harder for them, within reason.
During a previous assignment, I was told that during the summer period I was going to be swamped with work, and I was asked, because I don't have kids, not to take a vacation in that period.
So I didn't and told them that I would take my vacation after the summer holiday period, in October. I told them this in May.
The summer period comes around, and it was the slowest period I had ever encountered. There was literally nothing for me to do. Meanwhile the project manager and a number of other people in my team, who had small kids, did take time off in the summer period. By the time it was October, the work had picked up again, and they complained that I was going to be on vacation in that period. The manager called me not a team player. I just told them that I held the fort when they told me to, and that I had communicated this vacation well ahead of time. They had had their relax time, now it was time for me.
I agree, I don't want to make things harder for my team members, but within reason. And what they asked of me wasn't reasonable.
Exactly! Not taking your PTO will create pressure for your coworkers to also pass over their PTO or work longer hours.
Don't set a bad precedent.
I think what the guy above you meant is that he'd take PTO but try to make sure it's not 1) At the same time as everyone else, or 2) at an anticipated super busy period.
Where I come from, legally, we have to plan our PTO out for the year in Jan/Feb. Good managers will make exceptions and let you take spontaneous PTO with two weeks notice usually.
This means that if you have a team of 8 and each wants to take 2 weeks in the summer, usually max 2-3 people would have overlapping PTO. Everyone gets PTO in the summer, but you don't leave a single guy doing all the work. Usually anyone who has pre-existing plans would have higher priority over specific dates than anyone else.
The system works most of the time. You're happy because nobody is going to guilt you about taking PTO, your coworkers are happy because nobody is left alone to deal with the entire team's workload, and the bosses are happy because work continues at like 70% and if there's an emergency, there's someone to handle it.
Yea, no. At my last job every project was constantly late because they kept over promising and clearly didn’t have enough people for what they committed to. I couldn’t even get a department meeting once a month for an hour because everyone was always “too busy”.
These projects always need everyone to commit to it like it’s a personal passion project because their goals are unreasonable. If they can’t handle someone being away for a day then the manager clearly cannot plan and/or the enployees need better training(in my case half of them were simply stubborn and ineffective on top of the questionable management). Sure, don’t take a week off right before a reasonably set deadline if the work’s not done but otherwise do whatever.
I had someone call me yelling because I was going to finish the job in exactly the amount of time I said it would take me, but I started a day late due to technical errors which made another project go over by a day(and that day I still stayed late to make sure things were done!). If you can’t take a day off then you also can’t be sick, and if managers don’t account for THAT obvious possibility then they are fucking stupid and awful managers, zero exceptions.
If your business isn't sustainable when I visit family over the holidays, your business isn't sustainable.
Over here in Germany where everybody has at least 3 weeks paid time off (being ill does not count to this contingent btw), it is common that leaves are planned in the beginning of the year for larger vacations, so there are no collisions.
Also, if you have children you have priority during school breaks for paied leaves.
This concept could be copied by us employers also, I wonder why not? Maybe because this way you can pressure your employees with your vacation as leverage
And in this system, it is common courtesy to make effort to make sure your team has as few problems as possible from your absence. Of course it is also common courtesy that you are not contact for anything work related during your vacation time.
This is exactly what seems to be missing in the US: courtesy.
A system that gives everyone entitled leave means better employees and less downtime due to leave (surprise surprise, courtesy leads to coordination).
Shockingly this leads to people caring about their team mates, and things aren't zero sum anymore.
In the Netherlands we have laws in place to ensure what is called "good employership" and "good employeeship". It's basically the minimum of what you should expect from each other in matters of courtesy. Good employership as a minimum states an employer should be thoroughly, not abuse his powers as an employer, substantiate big decisions regarding employees, live up to expectations, treat all employees equal and provide good insurance.
Good employeeship is seen as being at work at agreed upon times (this includes taking PTO), doing suitable work, being honest, loyalty to a certain degree like not starting a company without consultation and "stealing" work from the employer, and descretion/secrecy regarding company sensitive information.
It's all very general, and most of the time further explained either in additional laws or in a "CAO", a collective working conditions agreement which is reviewed periodically with the unions (about 70-75% of employees have such an agreement).
Over here in Germany where everybody has at least 3 weeks paid time off (being ill does not count to this contingent btw), it is common that leaves are planned in the beginning of the year for larger vacations, so there are no collisions.
Also, if you have children you have priority during school breaks for paied leaves.
This concept could be copied by us employers also, I wonder why not? Maybe because this way you can pressure your employees with your vacation as leverage
And in this system, it is common courtesy to make effort to make sure your team has as few problems as possible from your absence. Of course it is also common courtesy that you are not contact for anything work related during your vacation time.
All of this is possible in North America, but you need a union job.
My day-job is a unionionized Managed Services gig subsidiary of a larger company. The rest of the company fits a stereotype we see in the deLoittes and IBM Pro Servs of the world, but the union contract gives us a sane bit of breathing room:
The combo of compressed time, stats and careful placement of my 21 vacation days this year will give me 7 carefully-placed weeks off; it's not contiguous, but it's really great.
If it turns out your manager has no problem keeping things running without you, then don't be surprised when you get laid off, and suddenly you're wondering how you're gonna afford food & shelter.
Take PTO Make sure your absence maximizes disruption that only you can fix Clean everything up right when you get back Job security!
Says the guy who has Scrooge Mcduck as an avatar. Sure buddy.
I don't think I agree with the second comment. I work in a team. If you just take it and leave them to handle your shit, you are an asshoke. If you say it in advance and sort your stuff, then do whatever you want
There's been a misunderstanding here. It seems like you are trying to share a balanced and nuanced opinion. That's a major faux pas around here, on the internet. Please find yourself an establishment where such vulgar language isn't frowned upon.
Isn't PTO supposed to be approved anyway?
Idk. I'm lucky enough that if I want PTO I can ask, and if I need it I can just notify my boss (I can literally enter his office and say "I need to take Friday for such and such" and he basically just goes "OK" and that is it)
If you haven't hired enough people to cover vacations and unexpected absences, you've hired poorly.
My department has been complaining to the big boss that we need more people. People have been retiring for years with barely one new hire per two empty positions. And now… I am in long term sick leave (protected) and shit is coming dooooown. Not enough people to cover all the projects. Multiple projects put on hold for the time being, others being roughly merged. People are pissed.
Lol. That's what happens when those in charge chronically chase short-term profit over long-term sustainability.
It does depend on the size of the company. If it's a small business, it may have no leeway occasionally, and you may need to time your PTO.
That being said, the last time I worked for a small business and they contacted me during my vacation to beg me to work, I quit directly after the vacation ended.
I mean, having a plan for the work you won't be there to do is normal, I tell my boss "I will be out on Friday, will you do x, and when I get back I will do Y".
And sure, would not request a day if the other two people in my department will both be out that same day.
This is in the flexible environment I work in, though. Don't need to take PTO for appointments, can come in late or leave early, can take a long lunch to go for a walk or run, nobody even blinks. I come in late sometimes because I needed to do gardening before work. I am flexible for them because they are flexible for me.
I actually enjoy answering emails when I’m off work but I guess I like my job
Manager here: seriously, just take your PTO.
Maximize the disruption so they know what'll happen of they fire you.
Then demand a raise.