this post was submitted on 06 Oct 2025
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[–] SabinStargem@lemmy.today 6 points 3 hours ago

As ever, centrists are just fascists when scratched.

[–] twinklefruit 9 points 3 hours ago

Liberal is a dirty word.

They're conservatives who have gay and black friends.

[–] NoodlePoint@lemmy.world 2 points 3 hours ago

The left is pretty much splintered along different types of ideologies and levels of hostility towards conservatism, so they could not agree with each other.

[–] RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world 45 points 19 hours ago (4 children)

The liberal establishment always abandons effective fellow liberals. Sanders, Mamdani, Thunberg…they’re actually trying to do something. That makes the established neolibs look ineffective and upsets their donors. So they turn their backs on the rabble rousers.

[–] prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 13 points 18 hours ago* (last edited 18 hours ago)

The liberal establishment always abandons effective fellow liberals. Sanders, Mamdani, Thunberg…

This is where there really is a distinction between "liberal" and "leftist" or "progressive."

I would not call any of those three people "liberals."

[–] krooklochurm@lemmy.ca 5 points 18 hours ago (5 children)

The current anger with Sanders appears to be, from an outsiders pov, that he didn't criticize Israel by calling it a genocide soon enough.

That appears to be it.

I mean. To dismiss everything because one mistake, even if that mistake is massive, and then correcting that mistake, if belatedly, to me, says something very positive about that politician.

I'd prefer it was immediate, and it's gross that it took him so long, but all the other stuff isn't cancelled out by that. He's still a net positive. And he DID criticize earlier than any other us politician I can think of, and sure it Could have been even earlier and harsher, but like. Fuck. If you hate politicians for being open to changing mind based on new evidence, or reforming beliefs you don't like, or admitting mistakes, you are AGAINST them being rational and it plays right into the hands of neoliberal propagandists.

[–] FlyingCircus@lemmy.world 3 points 3 hours ago

He has also consistently voted for Iron Dome rearmament packages, which materially supports the genocide.

[–] BrainInABox@lemmy.ml 1 points 3 hours ago

He didn't "change his mind based on new evidence", public opinion just shifted to the point where he couldn't get away with not calling it a genocide. The whole time he has always taken the most Israel friendly position he can get away with without losing credibility. Hell, in the very first line of his statement calling it a genocide he still insisted on repeating Isreali lies about October 7th.

[–] causepix@lemmy.ml 1 points 5 hours ago* (last edited 4 hours ago)

They specifically mentioned the liberal establishment. You're talking about criticism from people that probably abhor the liberal establishment even more than they do progressive liberals like Bernie.

Also I think this kind of criticism is important and I don't know why it bothers people so much. It's okay to be critical of things you ultimately support, either for ideological or simply for tactical reasons. It's called critical support, and I think people should do it more often. Even if the criticism isn't ultimately supportive, that doesn't mean all of a person's hate is directed in that single place. There may be more than just the surface level WHAT, like the WHY of it all and what that implies, that you are missing (or dismissing).

You have to stand for something or you'll fall for anything, and refusal to engage in critical analysis - pretending any politician can do no wrong (or the contrary case; can do no right), getting defensive, and outright rejecting any investigation to prove or disprove your conclusion - does not fall into the category of 'standing for something' to me but rather overzealous team sports.

We have to practice more critical thinking, despite how badly our political class does not want us doing that. Whether it helps any specific politician win an election or not (which you can still do even with criticisms). Especially considering that it's this kind of criticism that has made it untenable for a growing number of politicians to deny the genocide in Palestine; it's pretty clear that the only needle that uncritical support will move is that of the progressives, towards the liberal end of the spectrum. After all, it's our criticism of the current system and its complicity in human suffering that makes us progressive in the first place.

[–] eldavi@lemmy.ml 8 points 13 hours ago (2 children)

I mean. To dismiss everything because one mistake, even if that mistake is massive, and then correcting that mistake, if belatedly, to me, says something very positive about that politician.

even if it's clear that he's been doubling down on that mistake when presented with the evidence and then only switched it's become clear that the tide has begun turn?

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[–] magguzu@midwest.social 3 points 15 hours ago

There's more, he criticized protests against ICE in LA turning into riots, and had some nice things to say about Kirk after he was killed.

That said I think it's really unproductive for people to turn on him after he was a big spark in a movement and is still outspoken. He has irritated me a few times lately but he's still one of the most influential leaders.

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[–] biotin7@sopuli.xyz 22 points 18 hours ago* (last edited 17 hours ago)

On the other hand look at the Right wing Clowns celebrating the kidnapping of Greta. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TX2tu6J0JY

I may not like Greta, but credit where credit is due, She's brave. (Also Fuck NuxTaku you zionist pig, I heard your family is in Israel)

[–] RaivoKulli@sopuli.xyz 3 points 13 hours ago (1 children)

I just felt like people got tired of her and didn't read as much about her, so not as much reason to feature her

[–] spoopy@lemmy.world 17 points 12 hours ago (2 children)

Nah there's a pretty stark shift right when she started to talk about Gaza.

It's a pretty common trend, anyone that doesn't tow the Israeli party line is pretty quickly outcast or opposed.

[–] RaivoKulli@sopuli.xyz 1 points 1 hour ago

I thought that happened after the biggest interest in her had already faded but I might be misremembering it.

[–] GnuLinuxDude@lemmy.ml 8 points 6 hours ago

It's sort of like Malala, and how she remained committed to socialism and Islam. I think ten years ago for a while the western boosters who brought her to international attention thought she'd flip and be a useful stooge. When she turned out to not be, we heard less and less of her.

Same deal with Greta Thunberg, who is something more dangerous than someone who can be bought: she's someone who is principled for climate justice and human rights.

[–] DancingBear@midwest.social 33 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

Liberal ‘leaders’ abandonment. There needs to be an understanding that leadership is no longer following the will of the people in the United States. On either the left or the right. This fact is more of a cause of why things are so crazy than anything the people are doing or wanting

At least in the United States

Also: Israel is currently a terrorist state

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[–] IAmNorRealTakeYourMeds@lemmy.world 145 points 1 day ago (27 children)

Greta could have become a very rich liberal grifter.

keep them Davos cheques coming in.

instead she's risking her life to help those humanity has abandoned.

respect

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