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Choke me harder daddy (lemmy.dbzer0.com)

submitted 4 days ago by Stamets@lemmy.dbzer0.com to c/whitepeopletwitter@sh.itjust.works

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[–] GraniteM@lemmy.world 146 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (8 children)

I think about this guy and also Admiral "There Are So Many Uncharted Settlements" Ozzelfrom Empire sometimes.

My pet theory is that, from their perspective, Vader is primarily a gigantic pain in the ass. He has no official rank; he's just the Emperor's buddy. But he's constantly commandeering Imperial resources, up to and including entire fleets, diverting them away from carefully coordinated military planning, because he has "a feeling" that some survivor of Order 66 is hiding out on some backwater.

So then the entire damn fleet needs to go on a side quest, possibly destabilizing some other part of the galaxy where they're supposed to be part of a blockade ordered by the Admiralty, and Vader goes down with a platoon of expensive troops and equipment, and maybe even a bunch of them get killed or lost, and Vader flies back up to the Star Destroyer and announces "mission accomplished," because he managed to kill one guy that no one has even heard of.

So now the fleet is out of position, the Admiral is probably all pissed off because his orders got overridden, and you better believe that neither Vader nor the Emperor is going to hand out any medals for any of this. And God forbid Vader doesn't find the guy he's looking for! If that happens, he's even more pissed off than usual, and liable to cause even more property and personnel damage when he gets back to the ship. You're trying to run a fleet and subjugate a galaxy, and the Emperor and his Best Buddy with no discernible military experience whatsoever are constantly screwing it up with their weird personal vendettas.

So it's no wonder that the serious-minded military types are totally fed up with them, and maybe this guy figured that now that they can blow up planets they won't have to tolerate any more of Vader's bullshit.

[–] burgermeister@sh.itjust.works 31 points 4 days ago (4 children)

No discernible military experience, wasn't he a general in the clone wars? Ah but they wouldn't know that

[–] ChonkyOwlbear@lemmy.world 27 points 4 days ago

Sure, he has combat experience, but he knows nothing about occupation and running a military empire. Can you imagine Vader doing the paperwork it takes to maintain supply lines?

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[–] Sidyctism2@discuss.tchncs.de 21 points 4 days ago (3 children)

Ohhh god vader is musk.

Dont tell him i said that, he will take it as a compliment

[–] Agent641@lemmy.world 5 points 3 days ago

I was thinking Vader is Hegseth.

[–] chuckleslord@lemmy.world 10 points 4 days ago

Don't be ridiculous. Vader has no idea who Musk is, let alone care.

[–] HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world 6 points 4 days ago

musky. how often do you think he cleans that suit

[–] ThePantser@sh.itjust.works 24 points 4 days ago (2 children)

Just change a few words in there and you basically described Trump's first 90 days in office. Vader is Elon.

[–] halvar@lemy.lol 14 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Bruh what a parallel. Narcissistic and vindictive strongmen are similar to eachother.

[–] Diplomjodler3@lemmy.world 13 points 4 days ago (1 children)

It's not like there's a shortage of historical persons to model your villains on.

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[–] frezik@lemmy.blahaj.zone 20 points 4 days ago (10 children)

Might be right in general, but Ozzel did screw up. The Rebels at Hoth had little time to evacuate after running into the probe droid. The Empire could have easily camped the hyperspace exit from a distance and picked them all off. Ozzel chose to come in too close, and that made them vulnerable to the ground ion canon.

The whole rebellion should have died that day. Vader knows plenty enough about planetary sieges to figure this out.

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[–] AlexLost@lemmy.world 12 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Ummm, Anakin Skywalker was highly regarded as a military strategist throughout the clone wars. Non conventional maybe, but highly effective

[–] lemmy_get_my_coat@lemmy.world 25 points 3 days ago (1 children)

But no one is supposed to know that Vader is Skywalker, so that reputational credit doesn't transfer

[–] Buddahriffic@lemmy.world 5 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Vader is known for singlehandedly taking on armies though, which even Anakin never did.

[–] luciferofastora@feddit.org 6 points 3 days ago

Martial prowess and military high command are two different disciplines.

The latter requires skill in coordinating multiple operations running in tandem to support each other in achieving some strategic objective, dealing with the inevitable friction of things not going to plan, balancing momentum with logistical limitations while trying to cover your own vulnerabilities and extrapolating enemy movements from incomplete intelligence.

The former just requires superhuman strength, reflexes and precision aided by preternatural awareness and literally breathtaking telekinetic powers. Well, "just" makes it sound like it's trivial, so don't get me wrong: Vader is powerful and dangerous and will rightly have a reputation for his lethality. But those skills don't transfer to what an admiral would be expected to bring to the table.

From their position, he'll be a tactical weapon, a murder machine to tear a gaping hole into the enemy ranks and an even bigger one into their morale, spearheading assaults with devastating effect...

...but please stay out of their business.

[–] OpenStars@piefed.social 14 points 4 days ago (2 children)

It's still the height of stupidity to tell the evil wizard cyborg boss such stuff to their face, when they have the legal right to immediately kill you (as well as ability, from the cyborg parts if biting else).

Then again, he was probably brown-nosing for Tarkin, taking a gamble that he'd live and earn points with him... which actually ended up happening so I guess I have to retract my earlier statement about stupidity when it worked out so well for him.

It was still quite a risky move.

[–] luciferofastora@feddit.org 2 points 3 days ago (1 children)

A tactical gambit, essentially? I never thought of it that way, but it makes sense

[–] OpenStars@piefed.social 2 points 3 days ago

I am learning lately how such things do not even have to rise to the level of consciousness in order to occur. Someone can be quite gifted in such skills without ever having thought them through logically.

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[–] tomiant@piefed.social 9 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Behold! The power of storytelling and imagination when not every single detail is explicated upon and shoved in the audience's face!

[–] frezik@lemmy.blahaj.zone 6 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Apologies for a bit of a rant that probably nobody else cares about, but I have a bit of a chip on my shoulder about MAHQ (the biggest forum for mecha anime, and Gundam in particular) and how the moderators handle interpretation. There's an assumption that everything has to be spoonfed to you or it isn't right. It's really dumb and limiting.

[–] tomiant@piefed.social 2 points 1 day ago

I think it's baffling that people don't get how this works. Eh, I'm not that baffled actually, people will consume what they are given, and they are being fed dumb shit the way they are being fed fast food. If you grew up eating nothing but McDonalds, you won't want anything but McDonalds.

Alien, considered one of the greatest sci fi films of all time, only hint at the xenomorph throughout, up until the end. Nobody needs to know how a Kessel Run works. Too much background information leaves nothing to the imagination, that's why endless exposition and talking faces are so fucking boring and make for shit films.

[–] NigelFrobisher@aussie.zone 3 points 3 days ago

Bronson’s got to pay!

[–] Lumidaub@feddit.org 46 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (5 children)

Especially when he was clearly alive while that religion and its teachings were still actively being demonstrated to be true every day and its adherents were shaping the galaxy.

EDIT: ITT people defending their space wizard fairy tales with Doylian arguments.

[–] hOrni@lemmy.world 21 points 4 days ago (1 children)

So not a G, but just stupid.

[–] TaterTot@piefed.social 15 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Sometimes the |ine between G-ness and stupidity is very thin.

[–] TachyonTele@piefed.social 9 points 4 days ago (1 children)

It's a vibe

[–] Maiq@piefed.social 10 points 4 days ago

A G's vibe is different than that of a square.

[–] snooggums@piefed.world 20 points 4 days ago (2 children)

Did he know the emperor was a Sith who had powers, or was he just one of billions or trillions of people who had never actually interacted with anyone who openly used the force?

Sure, later movies made force use way more commonly used within a couple decades of this guy's bold choice, but at the time of the movie's release it was supposed to be an uncommon thing that hadn't even been around for a very long time.

[–] Wolf@lemmy.today 3 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

it was supposed to be an uncommon thing that hadn’t even been around for a very long time.

The Jedi had been around for over 25,000 years before A New Hope. There had to be volumes of evidence for Jedi powers by the time of that film.

https://screenrant.com/star-wars-jedi-order-origin-timeline-canon/

The guy in the meme and Han Solo were just Straw Atheists I'm afraid.

Edit: "For over a thousand generations the Jedi Knights were guardians of peace and justice in the Old Republic, before the dark times. Before the Empire." -Obi Wan in ANH

[–] OpenStars@piefed.social 7 points 4 days ago (5 children)

How long was it though - maybe a couple of decades?

It's more like inside of an authoritarian regime, propaganda is quite strong - e.g. China is the good guy and there are no questions (allowed) about that.

[–] FerretyFever0@fedia.io 8 points 4 days ago (5 children)

It was about 19 years at the start of A New Hope. So if they talked to literally one person that was over the age of 30, they'd probably know that Jedi were very real. Not common outside of active war zones and the Jedi Temple, but real. The galaxy was huge, with plenty of relatively untouched planets with sparse populations, that were relatively untouched by the Empire's influence. There were also plenty of planets that had people, but were able to just dismiss them as nuisances most of the time (Koboh and Tatooine for example).

The propaganda thing was definitely real and a problem, but likely far more common in the Inner and Mid rims. Still, even on Coruscant, the capital world, as flooded with the Empire's influence as a planet could be, people just had to leave the surface and go to a slightly lower level to escape their influence.

From what I've seen, a large portion of the population knew that the Empire was restrictive and bad, but they just didn't feel like they could do anything about it (like real life). So, it still doesn't make sense for anyone to not believe that the Jedi were real, and imo, makes Han and this guy (forgot his name) the equivalent of flat earthers. Again, made sense at the time, but certainly not now.

[–] spittingimage@lemmy.world 5 points 4 days ago (1 children)

makes Han and this guy (forgot his hame) the equivalent of flat earthers

Be fair to Han - he was in the underworld where people were probably trying to scam him every day. Scepticism is self-protection.

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[–] snooggums@piefed.world 7 points 4 days ago (1 children)

If he did not have personal experience with force users, or had not seen them successfully use their abilities, that explains how he would not see them as being demonstrated in the current running of the empire. What he would see is a lot of people pulling off massive industrial and military accomplishments being dismissed by Vader as less important than the force, which is generally subtle and difficult to see by non-force users.

"Don't try to frighten us with your sorcerer's ways, Lord Vader! Your sad devotion to that ancient religion has not helped you conjure up the stolen data tapes, or given you clairvoyance enough to find the rebels' hidden fort—"

He is being dismissive of the effectiveness of the force based on his personal experiences, not denying its existence.

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[–] FerretyFever0@fedia.io 15 points 4 days ago (1 children)

I mean, Han Solo did the same. I don't think that Lucas thought that it would really be much more than the three movies, and evidently didn't come up with much lore or backstory. I don't think they ever touched on what happened to Darth Vader and Sidious that put them into power (it's been a few years since I've seen them, could be wrong). Closest thing we got was a mention of the Clone Wars, with about no description of it.

[–] frezik@lemmy.blahaj.zone 15 points 4 days ago (6 children)

Lucas didn't even plan for Vader to be Luke's father at the start. Leigh Brackett, the main scriptwriter for ESB, never even knew that (she died of cancer when the script was in the final stages). That's why there's this awkward "certain point of view" discussion with Obi-wan in RotJ to explain away the cave conversation in the first movie; Lucas didn't plan that from the beginning, and he had to patch over a plot hole.

He very much made it up as he went.

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[–] frezik@lemmy.blahaj.zone 6 points 4 days ago

There's very few Doyalist arguments in the replies here. Besides my own argument about how Lucas doesn't plan things out, but that's not exactly complimentary to the narrative.

Watsonian: there are very few Force users in the galaxy. At its height, the Jedi Order is a few million Jedi in a galaxy of trillions of sapient beings. Force users were always more legend than something people saw on the regular. If you ever saw one lightsaber in person, it'd be a day you remember forever. The propaganda job wasn't even that hard. Just pretend they never existed and most people will go on with their lives.

Even as far as Motti is concerned, the Jedi were never that prominent. Just a sad old religion. He would have internalized Imperial policy against Jedi, and he only makes any exception at all for Darth Vader because people above him say he's important.

That random force lady on Yavin that Andor met? Andor has a good reason to believe she's a charlatan. Pretty much anyone you meet claiming to have force powers, even before Order 66, is probably a grifter.

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[–] waterore@lemmy.world 20 points 4 days ago (1 children)

In the book "from a certain point of view" Admiral Motti complains about Vader chocking him to the empire's HR department!

[–] Lumidaub@feddit.org 15 points 4 days ago (3 children)

And do they do anything about it? Or is a certain amount of chokage to be expected as an occupational hazard on an Empire vessel?

[–] frezik@lemmy.blahaj.zone 10 points 4 days ago

Imagine the PR flunky trying to writeup Darth Vader, along with signing a form promising not to do it again.

Did they draw straws? Get the intern to do it?

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[–] samus12345@sh.itjust.works 7 points 4 days ago (1 children)

"This could have been an email."

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