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submitted 11 months ago by pnutzh4x0r@lemmy.ndlug.org to c/linux@lemmy.ml

At Open Source Summit Japan, Linux and Git creator Linus Torvalds talked about Rust in Linux, Linux maintainer fatigue, and AI's future role in Linux and open-source development.

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[-] 1984@lemmy.today 84 points 11 months ago

Looking ahead, Hohndel said, we must talk about "artificial intelligence large language models (LLM). I typically say artificial intelligence is autocorrect on steroids. Because all a large language model does is it predicts what's the most likely next word that you're going to use, and then it extrapolates from there, so not really very intelligent, but obviously, the impact that it has on our lives and the reality we live in is significant.

Exactly.

[-] MigratingtoLemmy@lemmy.world 54 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

I would have liked for Linus to maintain his angry-man-finger-thrusting self against evil corporates like Nvidia. I suppose I'm asking for too much, but his mild-mannerisms towards developers is a welcome change. Towards such corporates though, not so much. I would have liked some more motivated cursing against Intel and Nvidia and IBM. Oh well.

Other than that (which is a minor gripe from me at the most), touching message from Linus. Indeed, the maintainers are graying, and the current generation isn't that interested in kernel programming. I'm sure there will be talent around (as long as the big companies need Linux to run their servers, I'm sure someone will turn up), but someone to rise to the helm with a fiery approach to openness is very important to my heart. I don't think we will ever see another Linus in our lifetime, and I will personally grieve the day Linus and his core set of maintainers pass away.

I am not a programmer, and the best I can do is provide some funding to people who can/would engage directly with the kernel. But if the situation becomes so dire, I too will get my hands dirty, if nothing but to help the cause. Long live FOSS!

[-] eestileib@sh.itjust.works 43 points 11 months ago

Linus was himself a major contributor to making people steer well clear of wanting to work on the Linux kernel. I didn't need that kind of abuse in my life.

So while he is identifying a problem, it's a bit like a recovering arsonist homeowner bemoaning the scorch marks on his house.

[-] MigratingtoLemmy@lemmy.world 10 points 11 months ago

As I said, his change in behaviour towards fellow developers is a welcome change. There's no doubt about that.

I just wish he would continue to rage against companies up to no good, especially for FOSS. I never want him to get mild with Nvidia, and I want him to praise AMD a bit (they deserve it, and his opinion holds value).

[-] notonReddit@lemmy.dbzer0.com -5 points 11 months ago

So you want a fool to validate your insipid worldviews.

[-] wiki_me@lemmy.ml 24 points 11 months ago

That said, Torvalds continued, "Rust has not really shown itself as the next great big thing. But I think during next year, we'll actually be starting to integrate drivers and some even major subsystems that are starting to use it actively. So it's one of those things that is going to take years before it's a big part of the kernel. But it's certainly shaping up to be one of those."

I don't know about that, languages which are based on standards (c++ , javascript, c) seem to have much better enduring popularity, i don't want to see rust becoming less and less popular which will lead to less available developers (like what is happening with ruby).

[-] hansl@lemmy.world 10 points 11 months ago
[-] 0ops@lemm.ee 1 points 11 months ago

I assumed that he was talking about the fact the the languages he listed have a lot of syntax in common with each other, and with a few other languages. I could be wrong though

[-] GustavoM@lemmy.world 7 points 11 months ago

I too can't wait to compile the kernel (and its modules) on cargo.

[-] ikidd@lemmy.world 7 points 11 months ago

I'll prep my supercomputer.

[-] TheFriendlyArtificer@beehaw.org 3 points 11 months ago

Speaking as a non Rustacean, I'm pretty okay with it becoming more integrated.

It's safe, performant, and isn't any more difficult to pick up than C++. C has a weird aura about it that makes it seem intimidating despite the fact that it is the simplest language (macros notwithstanding) that I've ever used.

Based on Google's recent track record of mind-boggling incompetence on all fronts, I want Go kept as far away from core functionality as humanly possible. This leaves either adding more cruft to an already ungainly C++, continuing to use Boost (another Google product) with C, or to pivot to a more modern language.

[-] caseyweederman@lemmy.ca 3 points 11 months ago

Agreed re: Google.
I dunno what the solution is. The world without Google is going to be a very different place. Do you think it's even possible for them to turn things around?

[-] TheFriendlyArtificer@beehaw.org 2 points 11 months ago

I think it would take a pretty major sea change for them. They technically split up into Alphabet, but I don't know of a single person that actually uses that when describing them.

Even if they did change things around, and I would wager that the entrenched bureaucracy will make that impossible, their name is toxic to a lot of tech nerds. We may be a minority, but we talk and people listen. Even the non techies in my life know that they can't maintain a simple messaging app, responded to (rightful!) concerns about data loss by locking the support threads, and has jacked up the price of YouTube on a yearly basis.

They've spectacularly failed at video game consoles, social media, banking/credit cards, IOT, messaging, video, and can't even maintain a semblance of consistency in their office suite. At work I have three different ways to receive instant messages, and it's a crapshoot as to which one a coworker will use.

And let's not even get into how absolutely useless their search is now that everything has been gamed by SEO. Duckduckgo has been my default for years, but now it's consistently returning better results than big G.

If they managed to correct course tomorrow, it would take multiple years for me to even begin to trust them again.

[-] caseyweederman@lemmy.ca 1 points 11 months ago

Yeah. Extremely unlikely and probably impossible.
It's incredible how very much they have been able to fail but still continue operating.

[-] jaybone@lemmy.world 0 points 11 months ago

Yeah… rust in the kernel scares me. Lol they are already worried about not having enough contributors, so…?

[-] onlinepersona@programming.dev 20 points 11 months ago

they = rust or the linux kernel?

The linux kernel doesn't have enough contributors because it's really difficult + the entire organisational side of it works on antique tech (IRC and mailinglists). The majority of the project itself is also in C which has a horrible developer experience: linting, documentation, debugging, code completion, and the lack of a proper IDE. The entire development cycle is convoluted. How do you seriously want to attract people to the project if everything looks like it's still in a development cycle of the 90s?

If I were to discover a one-line bug in the kernel by reading it, actually testing the one-line fix would take me, as a newbie probably a solid week. Getting it into the kernel itself would probably take even longer.

The kernel is also known for Linus' outbursts and being filled with neckbeard elitists. The project in my eyes has an image problem.

As for rust, if that's what you meant, I'd be interested in knowing the source for not having enough contributors.

[-] GustavoM@lemmy.world 1 points 11 months ago

If that means an AI-assistant of sorts (like "that OS name that cannot be spoketh") I'm game.

Will that make some users freak out and make it sound like its doomsday, even if they implement a on/off toggle to the AI assistant? Probably.

[-] Black616Angel@feddit.de 25 points 11 months ago

An AI assistant has nothing to do with the kernel and will never be in it.

It's something for user space and can be done already. This is for the distro maintainers to decide.

[-] ExLisper@linux.community 4 points 11 months ago

What if AI will start contributing to the kernel end ends including AI there?

[-] Black616Angel@feddit.de 2 points 11 months ago

Then it's over. We can tear it all down and start new.

this post was submitted on 09 Dec 2023
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