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I find this to be most accurate with Debian (lemmy.dbzer0.com)
submitted 8 months ago by 0x4E4F@lemmy.dbzer0.com to c/linuxmemes@lemmy.world
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[-] FuglyDuck@lemmy.world 86 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Updates in Linux are far more tolerable. There’s really no reason to delay Debian stable, imo, unless you absolutely can’t risk some downtime.

Server rats excepted, it’s just a process that goes in the background and at most, you have to reboot the kernel.

There’s no staring at the Blue Screen of Boredom while windows update holds your machine hostage.

[-] 1984@lemmy.today 66 points 8 months ago

I work at a medium size company with hundreds of Linux servers and none of them get updated. Because it's more important that they keep running as they are than to have the latest updates. I bet this is very common for most companies.

[-] bushvin@lemmy.world 86 points 8 months ago

There is nothing more important than security patches on a system.

I used to work at an FMI, which’s motto was “keep things stable”. Even the ciso department bought that crap. Until we hired a white hat hacker. The only thing given was the name of the company. He managed to get into the building, access an employee’s workstation and install a root kit on one of the most important financial message tracking systems (you know, the one that instructs other systems to transfer money), using a security bug, which would have been patched if they kept a regular (security) update cycle. After shit hit the fan, many people were fired and an update cycle was introduced.

No system is important enough to not patch. And if you believe it is, you’re wrong.

[-] 0x4E4F@lemmy.dbzer0.com 9 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Yeah, but that just takes way too much work. You think I really care about the company's/bank's money if I'm not getting paid enough for that job? Security patches can also introduce new problems, like x changes, so y doesn't work, so the main app doesn't work... and what, then I have to manually edit code, introduce the thing that x relied on so that y can work again?

I'm sorry, but this is not your average IT department's job... or if it is, I expect a damn good compensation for it.

I've updated and rolled back snapshots because of shit like this... nah, not gonna try and figure out what the problem was... at least not for the salary I'm currently getting paid. If it burns, it burns, so be it.

[-] li10@feddit.uk 20 points 8 months ago

I’d be surprised if you actually saw anything change from security updates tbh, I don’t think I’ve ever seen anything break from a quick patch.

Dist upgrades are when things might break, but they’re only once every few years. Leave them too long though and you may end up with compatibility issues if you need to make changes.

Fair enough if you’re not getting paid enough, the company should hire more people to stay on top of that though.

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[-] min_fapper@iusearchlinux.fyi 17 points 8 months ago

God I hope I don't use any products from your company.

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[-] ramble81@lemm.ee 15 points 8 months ago

“Way too much work” — if you ever said that where I work I’d fire you or not hire you in a heartbeat. An administrator’s role is not only to the stability of the system but the security too. You’re a hackers wet dream.

[-] eskimofry@lemmy.world 10 points 8 months ago

The phrase "Fuck you, pay me" comes to mind.

Cheapskates don't get top of the line security hardening. Pay more now or suffer a breach and pay contractors $1000/hr to fix your broken shit because you paid minimum wage for an administrator position and wanted them to do 5 jobs at once.

[-] 0x4E4F@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 points 8 months ago

This guy gets it... and probably doesn't live in the US, cuz he knows the term "work 5 jobs at once".

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[-] bushvin@lemmy.world 2 points 8 months ago

The I can only recommend you to start automating everything you do, to make tour job easier and make more time to slack 😝

Start small, and build on that.

Try Ansible, it is easy and allows you to do some really cool stuff. It helped me migrate 500+ systems from KVM to vmware, where no commercial tool was able to help me…

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[-] targetx@programming.dev 26 points 8 months ago

If it's important that it keeps running then it should just be redundant and taking one node down for an update shouldn't be an issue. I know this is wishful thinking for a lot of services but I refuse to be on call for something if the client can't be bothered to make it redundant.

[-] somenonewho@feddit.de 16 points 8 months ago

Jup same here. We have a colleague that constantly reminds everyone that we're not properly patched (even running eol versions) but there's always something to be done that's a higher priority.

[-] 0x4E4F@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 points 8 months ago

Exactly. Shit needs to just work, period. Why? Because otherwise, I'm the one getting 2AM calls... and I would be OK with that if I'm properly compensated for it... which I'm not.

[-] poinck@lemm.ee 4 points 8 months ago

Did you think of testing security updates on a staging environment before going in production with it, if you suspect in can break things?

I think there is no excuse to apply security fixes wich have a CVE number.

If you are on Debian stable unattended updates are not a problem.

[-] 0x4E4F@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

See, building and configuring a staging environment also takes time and money... money which they are not willing to spend on something "for testing" and not in actual use. Plus, I'm not gonna get paid for doing that either, so why actually do it... to be honest, I would do it, even for free, but you gotta caugh up the money for the hardware man. I've been told "just use what you have in the scrap pile"... for what, a server 🤨? Are you serious? They barely spend any money on that even, why should I bother creating something as e staging environment.

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[-] imgcat@lemmy.ml 7 points 8 months ago

Not at all.

[-] Pacmanlives@lemmy.world 6 points 8 months ago

Typically monthly or quarterly patching depending on severity and DMZ exposures. When log4j or shellshock hit it was patch once the patch was released and tested

[-] nexussapphire@lemm.ee 3 points 8 months ago

If it's a personal server that can manage being down for 15min or so. You could just setup auto updates with email if anything goes wrong and reboot off hours. Containers also make it less risky although it does fail to update every once in a great while.

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[-] vampire@lemmy.world 42 points 8 months ago

Do you work for the North Korean government or something OP? Why discourage people from keeping their systems secure?

[-] SaltyIceteaMaker@iusearchlinux.fyi 31 points 8 months ago

What they are referring to is people just don't update their server because during that time they wouldn't be able to make a profit. This goes more to middle siszed businesses but happens rather often

[-] sloppy_diffuser@sh.itjust.works 9 points 8 months ago

Blows my mind, lol. Usually means no redundancy that allows one set to be done while the other set handles the traffic.

[-] NotAtWork@startrek.website 9 points 8 months ago

"Why should we pay for another server one works just fine, a second would just be waisted money."

Also

"We need 9 9s of reliability or the company will fail."

[-] 0x4E4F@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 8 months ago

Yeah, it is quite common, I can confirm... well, at least around here it is.

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[-] vampire@lemmy.world 5 points 8 months ago

I was making a joke

[-] nutbutter@discuss.tchncs.de 15 points 8 months ago

Joke transfer unsuccessful. Server crashed. Time to update the joke server.

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[-] Batman@lemmy.world 9 points 8 months ago

Security is an art... the art of not giving a fuck about your data

-Op, probably

[-] sep@lemmy.world 30 points 8 months ago

I find this to be least acurate with debian.. on other distros a patch may or may not install a new version of that package. that can bring changes to the behavior. On debian stable the security issues are backported. So you can patch and be sure that there is no changes to the behavior of the system. It is basically the reason all vm's i manage are debian stable.
It is also true they never crash. But that is expected of linux. It is the extreme reliabillity that is the debian killer feature for me.

[-] wreckedcarzz@lemmy.world 21 points 8 months ago

Me with my 'homelab' nas:

system (user-facing) package has an update? It'll auto-update overnight

dockerized service has feature updates? Let watchtower handle it with the weekly schedule

dockerized service with security patch? yeah, let's hit that this afternoon

actual system update? EVERYTHING IS GOING OFFLINE -4 SECONDS AGO FOR THIS

[-] aeharding@lemmy.world 19 points 8 months ago

The system is going down NOW.

[-] AngryCommieKender@lemmy.world 3 points 8 months ago
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[-] MigratingtoLemmy@lemmy.world 19 points 8 months ago

Debian updates are not usually that big of a deal especially if you have HA configured

[-] cupcakezealot@lemmy.blahaj.zone 12 points 8 months ago

i'm pretty sure security updates are optional.

[-] InternetCitizen2@lemmy.world 5 points 8 months ago

Just put a "these colors don't run" text in the log in

[-] sep@lemmy.world 12 points 8 months ago

Unatended-upgrades keeps all systems securly patched. But there is a need for a reboot for kernel updates now and then.

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[-] CbtB@lemmynsfw.com 11 points 8 months ago

True except for the one BOFH admin on the team who actually cares about best practices.

And yes, most distros have painless updates, the devs and everyone else don't care.

[-] jodanlime@midwest.social 13 points 8 months ago

Hi. It's me. The guy bitching about best practices every other meeting. Sorry, but some of my past and present coworkers are clowns.

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[-] ikidd@lemmy.world 10 points 8 months ago

"Until you crash, no on ~~cares~~ will reboot you."

[-] Thrickles@lemm.ee 6 points 8 months ago
  • until there's a PCI audit.
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[-] lemmesay@discuss.tchncs.de 4 points 8 months ago

yes, im guilty of this. haven't got time to update my server to v12

[-] dog_@lemmy.world 3 points 8 months ago

Isn't live patching a thing?

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this post was submitted on 28 Feb 2024
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