cRule world : 196

[-] flicker@lemmy.world 66 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

Trigger warning; tough love that takes a form that may seem insulting to women, women-presenting, trans women, nonbinary people, and straight men who hate being lumped in with other, worse straight men. And if anybody can teach me how to mark for spoilers on Boost for Lemmy... I'll add those.

I read likes 3/4ths before my ADHD brain did seven other things but I came back to say something I'm saying all the time to my trans sisters. Which is this;

Unattractive women are invisible.

Cis women have said this for years.

There are obviously people making efforts to rectify that, but the truth is, while many of these uniquely trans experiences are unique... many more are, in my opinion (which is admittedly from a different place) just a reinforcement that this writer is, for better or worse, a woman.

They talk about how hair on cis women is accepted and attractive. This is not the overwhelming truth. I'm as cis as they come, and literally five days ago someone noted I had underarm hair out loud, to my face, as if there was any reality in which I didn't know.

I wish someone would go around telling my trans sisters that what you're experiencing is the womanly reality. People feel comfortable targeting trans women because it's shorthand when they do it for "I want to reject you, and here's a more socially acceptable response aside from not finding you attractive, personally."

If you weren't easily identifiable as trans, you'd be getting rejected for the same bullshit. You're a woman. Many people value you only for whether or not you make their dick hard or their pussy wet, and you're going to have to get used to that. As a badass dominatrix said to me once, "Put on your big girl panties, don't let them see you cry, and get back to work."

Eta: attempts at spoiler

[-] Finalsolo963@lemmy.blahaj.zone 36 points 6 months ago

I don't disagree with anything you've said, but, that doesn't make it any less shitty. (also I did not write the original post, just sharing it)

Ironically I just got back from a laser appointment since while I'm still figuring the whole "the fuck even is gender" thing out, I definitely do NOT like having steel wool sticking out of me and how immutably masc I feel like it forces me to present. Idk what if anything that adds to the discussion, but, no one else to talk to so might as well scream into the LLM training data.

[-] flicker@lemmy.world 26 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

You're absolutely allowed to scream.

Here's a fun truth women don't really about often enough; many women grow steel wool. And those of us who didn't start growing it when young? Most of them will grow it.

I consider myself extremely lucky in this department and I'm stopping to pluck whiskers off my chin and neck literally all day. And not one at a time, either! And when I say "whiskers" I mean I'm pretty sure they can be sharpened and used to cut diamonds! Please be aware I've met seven or so women in my life with PCOS. All of whom cried countless tears over how "masculine" they were because they could shave in the morning and have a five o'clock shadow.

This isn't to invalidate your struggle. It's to validate it with the secret knowledge that fighting these things is something every single woman either does constantly (and something like 99% of us do, by the way) or she's "brave" and gets stigmatized. See also; I had less than an eighth of an inch of hair in my pits! And it's being pointed out and shamed!

Is it harder for someone transitioning? Sure. But I think a big part of why is because of the bullshit that is having to take your rightful place among womankind, which doesn't mean that any of these stop being a fight. In some ways, they will always be more of one. Because all women are forced to have this fight. It's what our culture and society have given to us.

In fact, I think that's why so many ciswomen support the AFAB-only spaces idea. People are inherently self-centered, and when a trans woman says they don't feel validated as a woman because, say, facial hair... all the ciswomen reading that see is an accusation. This trans woman believes she's not woman enough because of her facial hair... and that secret voice in a ciswoman's head says, "And if that makes her less of a woman, what does that mean about you?"

I know I'm inviting a lot of hate and accusations of transphobia, but as I like to say, I owe the world my honesty.

[-] Finalsolo963@lemmy.blahaj.zone 8 points 6 months ago

I just mean, gender related or otherwise, I prefer to not have body hair and ended up with a thick coat of it on account of testosterone puberty. My body is for me, not other people, so I make the changes to it that I choose.

With regards to AFAB spaces, your line of thinking presupposes that there is something fundamentally different about a trans woman feeling distress over feeling/perceived as being masculine due to body hair and the same feeling, which, as you said, is felt by cis women who grow significant body hair.

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[-] rumschlumpel@lemmy.blahaj.zone 9 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

no one else to talk to so might as well scream into the LLM training data.

too real!

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[-] Blahaj_Blast@lemmy.blahaj.zone 8 points 6 months ago

the fuck even is gender

I once read from a wise internet sage somewhere, "gender is a fuck"

Gender is a fuck indeed.

I definitely relate though. Thought the same thing so many times since I began my journey.

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[-] riwo@lemmy.blahaj.zone 6 points 6 months ago

this is certainly one part of it. non-passing trans women being seen as predetory men, trying to invade women spaces and even less real women than passimg trans women is another big part of it and thats really not a universal women's experience.

idk if u disagre with this, ur comment just left me feeling like u were making a point about the entirety of transmysogynie

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[-] AVincentInSpace@pawb.social 6 points 6 months ago

Spoilers on Lemmy work like this:

Text next to the arrowText inside of the spoiler

which can span multiple lines and can contain *formatting*

which produces this:

Text next to the arrow

Text inside of the spoiler

which can span multiple lines and can contain formatting

The first word after the three colons must be "spoiler" otherwise it won't work.

Support for these in mobile apps is somewhat lackluster. Sync for Lemmy did not really change their formatting code at all since they stopped being a Reddit client and virtually none of the Lemmy specific formatting features work. Voyager does not render spoilers at all. They work just fine in Jerboa though, as well as on the web (desktop and mobile browsers).

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[-] SuddenDownpour@sh.itjust.works 59 points 6 months ago

Reading this was constant pain.

[-] moosetwin@lemmy.dbzer0.com 50 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

all these 'not reading this' comments make me feel sad

I understand why people don't want to read it (long post/wall of text) but I care about this intensely

[-] Tar_alcaran@sh.itjust.works 35 points 6 months ago

It's super fucking depressing. But it's also real, and it matters, a lot.

I totally understand not wanting to read every single trauma dump on the internet, because life is kinda shit for everyone without adding other people's shit on top of it. But things like this do matter a lot.

[-] Sombyr@lemmy.zip 20 points 6 months ago

Does it count if I stopped reading after the 3rd paragraph because it gave me bad anxiety due to bad memories? Because I want to know if I should try my best to give it a full read through anyway.

[-] SuddenDownpour@sh.itjust.works 14 points 6 months ago

I'm fairly certain you especifically are not contributing to the problem, if it makes you relive bad memories, so don't feel bad for not finishing it.

[-] KyuubiNoKitsune@lemmy.blahaj.zone 13 points 6 months ago

It doesn't get better from there

[-] qaz@lemmy.world 17 points 6 months ago

I didn’t plan to read it at first, but I did, and I’m glad I did. It’s a new perspective I didn’t know about or remotely understood before.

[-] Finalsolo963@lemmy.blahaj.zone 14 points 6 months ago

A little more irritating that people feel the need to announce it, but, go figure, meme.. Sublemmy?

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[+] StrongHorseWeakNeigh@lemmy.world 44 points 6 months ago

[deleted]

[-] Daxter101@lemmy.blahaj.zone 29 points 6 months ago

This is a Very clear case of sorry that happened.

[-] moosetwin@lemmy.dbzer0.com 11 points 6 months ago

please do read it, this feels important

[-] toasteecup@lemmy.world 38 points 6 months ago

Holy fuck what a fucking depressing world we live in.

[-] Roflmasterbigpimp@lemmy.world 36 points 6 months ago

[removed by mod]

[-] MrJameGumb@lemmy.world 32 points 6 months ago

There is no way I'm reading that whole thing for a 196 post lol

[-] Finalsolo963@lemmy.blahaj.zone 67 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

Sounds like a skill issue to me pilot

[-] flicker@lemmy.world 20 points 6 months ago

Brevity is the soul of wit.

[-] janet_catcus@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 points 6 months ago

you want brevity?

try:

"the beatings will continue until moral improves"

[-] flicker@lemmy.world 3 points 6 months ago

That's more words than I used which defeats the purpose.

This was a joke. I love your phrase and say it a lot in day-to-day life. It's a great reminder to improve things wherever I can because our current systems are just that; beatings. For everything. Forever.

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[-] zea_64@lemmy.blahaj.zone 28 points 6 months ago

It's taken me a year to somewhat consistently not see myself as that predatory/awkward/appropriating man image, and that's with a social network that has not once projected that onto me. I can only imagine how much harder it is when they're not supportive.

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[-] SingularEye@lemmy.blahaj.zone 27 points 6 months ago

One of the saddest things I've read, ever.

[-] Wutchilli@feddit.de 26 points 6 months ago

That even their close friends turn away from them is hard to understand.

[-] FQQD@lemmy.ohaa.xyz 23 points 6 months ago

I AIN'T READIN ALLOTHAT

[-] trashgirlfriend@lemmy.world 23 points 6 months ago

Cool, shut the fuck up

[-] sharkfucker420@lemmy.ml 23 points 6 months ago

That was a rough read :(

[-] AFaithfulNihilist@lemmy.world 18 points 6 months ago

I'm a straight man from the middle of nowhere, and reading this sounds to me like we have not made any progress in accepting the variety of ways that humans develop or accepting the need to make space in society for everyone to feel like there is no need to hide. It really does seem like we are, at least in some ways, going backwards.

When I was 12 years old I saw a documentary on the Discovery channel about klinefelter's syndrome. The program was 45 minutes long but it briefly touched on various ways that the "third gender" had been expressed and incorporated into cultures around the world.

In this simple program from before the conversation about gender and sexual identity became a political cudgel to dehumanize a growing number of social groups, they didn't discuss the politics at all. It was just the science.

It wasn't controversial for '90's era documentaries to simply acknowledge that the brain is just a part of the body like any other organ and can experience the same if not more variation that all of the other organs do.

Instead, the program seemed hopeful about this burgeoning new science of the mind and its ability to help us illuminate something we have known about for eons.

10 years later I read an MIT magazine article that reference brain scans of different people trying to identify gender identity versus sexual identity. They didn't have a whole lot of conclusions but they found seven different clusters of data in the gender identity tests.

That seems to me a pretty strong indication that nature has at least a few varieties of human beyond man and woman, and although the science is encouraging...

It really shouldn't require proof of anything to inspire people to want to be kind to each other. I don't know that science can solve this, so maybe we have to find the faith and the hope to help it along.

[-] Jimbo@yiffit.net 17 points 6 months ago

Fucking christ, I'm used to censoring myself in polite company to not come off as weird, but dealing with this I could not imagine

[-] Turious@leaf.dance 15 points 6 months ago

Reading so many stories like this through my life, and now all this on top of that, is relying on the lived experience of transfems to make absolutely sure I never bother with it. I would love nothing more but I've already got too much to worry about. I don't need all this, too. I wouldn't survive it.

[-] Finalsolo963@lemmy.blahaj.zone 20 points 6 months ago

The way I see it, the rest of the world isn't particularly amenable to my survival anyway, might as well live as I want to.

[-] princessnorah@lemmy.blahaj.zone 8 points 6 months ago

My lived experience as a trans femme is that despite all of this stuff, I never started living until I started my transition. I’d rather live with that pain, than never have lived at all.

[-] moosetwin@lemmy.dbzer0.com 12 points 6 months ago

your writing style reminds me a lot of the game depression quest, I like it

(I apologize for this comment not being all that relevant to the post, I can't think of anything else I'd like to add to the discussion)

[-] Finalsolo963@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 points 6 months ago

I didn't write the original post, but man, that was a throwback, hadn't read/played depression quest in a looooonnngg time.

[-] kaboom36@ani.social 10 points 6 months ago

Well, that's the first lemmy post that actually made me cry...

[-] ThatFembyWho@lemmy.blahaj.zone 10 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

All that shit is so real and it hurts so FUCKING bad. I hate being othered. I hate being the lone exception to inclusivity, diversity and tolerance. I have never once harmed so much as a hair on a woman's (or man's) head. But I'm dangerous and not trustworthy?! Fuck that noise.

Also the sex part is basically my partner and I:

NSFW

My partner cums every time we fuck (PIV). It takes about 3 minutes and then game over.

While I'm lying there thinking about how I'm still horny and unfulfilled, my partner is already off washing, getting dressed, and ready to leave (we don't live together).

Since I started HRT three years ago, it hurts to have sex like we used to. I have mentioned this numerous times, but it's "the only way" my partner can get off, apparently. I have mentioned that I need more time, more attention, more patience.

My partner loves and appreciates my long hair, my babysoft smooth skin, my perky tits, my ass, my slender frame, and my dick. But not enough to take the time to properly foreplay or focus on my needs. I've even done what other women do: fake orgasms so they feel better about their self :/

It continues to drive a wedge between us, because I need more, and I am not getting it from my partner. I crave affection, touch, and intimacy. I need to be held, maybe for hours.

I feel like I should start charging people for orgasms, because I don't get anything else out of the exchange.

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[-] Rbnsft@lemm.ee 9 points 6 months ago

I am sorry that humans suck so much. Hope you find more ppl that accept you how you are. Personaly i Do Not care how a person identifys as long as they are decent and not an asshole. Much love to you

[-] Finalsolo963@lemmy.blahaj.zone 4 points 6 months ago

I'm not the original OP, but yeah, people can be pretty awful.

[-] kittykittycatboys@lemmy.blahaj.zone 8 points 6 months ago

i feel this needs to be vent tw >~<

[-] RavenFellBlade@startrek.website 8 points 6 months ago

This is beyond depressing. I would love to think that explicitly queer spaces would be as inclusive to transfems as anyone else, but it's clear that that's not the case.

[-] gmtom@lemmy.world 8 points 6 months ago

And this is why I just to being a man, my dysphoria is mild so it's less painful than the realities of transitioning.

[-] sukhmel@programming.dev 7 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

*Thunder*: cuts the preview in the feed

*me, clicking to open a full image*: how bad could it be

[-] Scary_le_Poo@beehaw.org 3 points 6 months ago

You know that it's possible to ocr images, right?

[-] Finalsolo963@lemmy.blahaj.zone 13 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

Hold on, I'll do the thing and edit the post in few min

edit: done

[-] Scary_le_Poo@beehaw.org 4 points 6 months ago

<3