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Now i'm definitely cheering for Rulestein (lemmy.ml)

submitted 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) by KingThrillgore@lemmy.ml to c/196@lemmy.blahaj.zone

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alt text: A "xit" from user @ChrpngBrd in which he responds to another "xit" from @BlueBoxDave that says "If Israel falls then America falls. It's that simple." @ChrpngBrd's response is a thumbs up emoji, and two stills from The Simpsons S02E19 "Lisa's Substitute." In which, the first image is Martin Prince putting up a poster saying "A vote for Bart is a vote for Anarchy!" and the second image is Bart Simpson putting up a poster that says "A vote for Bart is a vote for Anarchy!"

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[-] megopie@lemmy.blahaj.zone 142 points 8 months ago

Deranged logic, Israel is not a strategic keystone to the survival of America.

Like, even if one has drunk the Flavoraid enough to think that what Israel is doing is ok and that it’s not an apartheid state that needs the South Africa treatment; in what fucking reality is Israel not eminently replaceable in the role it plays in US foreign policy? if anything, it is a net negative, a dead weight dragging down US relations with the rest of the region.

It routinely takes unilateral action to throw gas on the metaphorical fires of the region. Like, allies have their own goals and ambitions that diverge sometimes, but you’d expect them to converge occasionally and not actively attempt kneecap each others diplomacy.

[-] humorlessrepost@lemmy.world 63 points 8 months ago

You’re thinking of real-world geopolitics. These people tend to me more along the lines of “God only blesses the US because we’re helping to bring about the prerequisite conditions for the apocalypse”.

[-] nifty@lemmy.world 33 points 8 months ago

Religious fundamentalists are the greatest threat to modern civilization

[-] dejected_warp_core@lemmy.world 3 points 8 months ago

Quite possibly to civilization itself, full stop. Placing fiction before fact is not a sane way to run, well, anything.

[-] Glytch@lemmy.world 19 points 8 months ago

I appreciate that you used the correct brand of drink mix rather than continuing the Kool-aid slander.

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[-] Ranger@lemmy.blahaj.zone 17 points 8 months ago

Israel isn't even America's most important playmate in the middle east.

[-] DragonTypeWyvern@literature.cafe 9 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Israel isn't even in danger of falling.

[-] roguetrick@lemmy.world 3 points 8 months ago

Bibi's government is though, thank God.

[-] Neato@ttrpg.network 12 points 8 months ago

Israel isn't easily replaceable in US foreign policy for the Middle East. I.e. the US uses Israel as a base of operations in the area. But the US definitely doesn't need Israel for it's survival or even to exert influence on the Middle East: it just makes it easier.

[-] megopie@lemmy.blahaj.zone 29 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

The US didn’t have a base in Israel till 2017, it’s never really been a significant base of operation for US forces. Us forces have more presence in basically every country in the region with the exception of Yemen, Egypt and Iran. Hell, there’s even a base Syria.

[-] Ranger@lemmy.blahaj.zone 11 points 8 months ago

And there's a nato member a little bit north of Israel.

[-] CatfishSushi@lemmy.world 9 points 8 months ago

Frankly I'm not sure NATO can rely on Turkey.

[-] Ranger@lemmy.blahaj.zone 4 points 8 months ago

Yeah that probably true

[-] roguetrick@lemmy.world 4 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

NATO can always rely on Turkey because Russia will always want the black sea to itself. That's been true from the Tsar, to the USSR and now to the federation. It'll never change.

Turkey just plays a strange game with powers it has proxy fights with, like Russia and Iran.

[-] frezik@midwest.social 14 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

With declining importance of oil, the US has less reason to give a shit about the Middle East. We're a ways off from that point, but it's coming.

If you think the Middle East is fucked up now, just wait until there's a power vacuum from nobody caring about oil anymore.

[-] regul@lemm.ee 12 points 8 months ago

I think we're good.

https://www.reuters.com/graphics/ISRAEL-PALESTINIANS/USA-MILITARY-BASES/zdvxnnynmvx/chart.png

[-] tuckerm@supermeter.social 64 points 8 months ago

How in the hell does anyone think that America's safety is dependent on Israel?

[-] Ranger@lemmy.blahaj.zone 35 points 8 months ago

It's called propaganda.

[-] catfishsushi@midwest.social 19 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

The US doesn't support Israel for our safety. We do because historically being anti-Israel alienated the following groups.

Evangelical votes in the US
Jewish voters in the US
A strong Pro-Israel lobby, who would give a LOT of money, and therefore a lot of votes, to opponents of an anti-Israel candidate.

[-] xantoxis@lemmy.world 10 points 8 months ago

The historical context is changing rapidly, though.

These days, Jewish voters are more likely to support safety for Palestinians than the ongoing genocide. By polls, they don't like Netanyahu and, while most think US support of Israel is "about right", more US Jews would prefer decreasing US involvement than increasing it, so the pendulum is swinging away. So, even among Jews, it's not clear that the US should be involved.

And AIPAC is just one among many lobbies. If you ask a random Republican what we should do with Israel, "nuke it to glass" is likely to be the answer, so they can only really influence Democrats and they still have to promise more money than the opposition lobbies do.

[-] FakeGreekGirl@lemmy.blahaj.zone 4 points 8 months ago

I don't think most Republicans want to nuke Israel to glass these days. Of course, that's more because they need it for their batshit end-times prophecies than any sort of humanitarian or rational reason.

[-] regul@lemm.ee 6 points 8 months ago

Evangelicals only really started voting in the 80s. Their support of Israel is only significant recently.

[-] frezik@midwest.social 18 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

There was a cold war argument that the US needed Israel and the Saudis to counteract the more Russia-aligned Egypt and Iran. We have guns here because they have guns over there.

Now its mostly because oil, which will be important for a lot of products for a long time to come, but not for the one thing that drives American policy in the region: the price at the gas pump.

Oh, and then there's the Christian Zionists who want to kick off the Rapture. That group is vestigial, diseased, and needs to be cut right out.

[-] Buddahriffic@lemmy.world 3 points 8 months ago

Maybe it was more of a threat than a statement about dependency.

[-] affiliate@lemmy.world 36 points 8 months ago

whenever someone says “it’s that simple”, it’s not.

[-] KingThrillgore@lemmy.ml 34 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

If Israel falls then America falls. It’s that simple

the dude can't even use a comma, what the fuck?

[-] ZILtoid1991@lemmy.world 28 points 8 months ago

Two words: Power vacuum.

Once the US is gone, its place in the world will be filled in with China, Russia, India, etc., none of are any better (if not outright worse) than the current status quo.

[-] bigMouthCommie@kolektiva.social 10 points 8 months ago

power vacuums are a myth used to sell weapons to the pentagon.

[-] UnrepententProcrastinator@lemmy.ca 10 points 8 months ago

We all know Canada is to be the next superpower once all hell breaks loose in the US!

[-] ZILtoid1991@lemmy.world 3 points 8 months ago

They will be like "We're sorry!" like constantly...

[-] Piemanding@sh.itjust.works 7 points 8 months ago

While committing all the war crimes! Finding out what they did in WWII was a bit eye-opening to say the least.

[-] CheesyFox@lemmy.world 9 points 8 months ago

what about eu? Granny Europe still rocks, do not underestimate her.

[-] SchizoDenji@lemm.ee 6 points 8 months ago

none of are any better (if not outright worse) than the current status quo.

Please tell me what good US does at all in this position?

[-] Sootius@lemmy.world 6 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Count some numbers: Out of the US, Russia, China and India, how many millions of deaths of innocent civilians have each caused or significantly contributed to? I'm fairly sure the US tops that list by some ways.

[-] Hemuphone@lemmy.world 9 points 8 months ago

You might want to read some history if you think that? Stalin, etc.

[-] 100_kg_90_de_belin@feddit.it 5 points 8 months ago

Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, we know the spiel. Anyway, the US were built on the genocide of indigenous people, have you conveniently forgotten about that? Do they not count because they don't belong to your ethnic group?

[-] Hemuphone@lemmy.world 2 points 8 months ago

I would argue that Europeans are mostly to blame for the genocide of the indigenous people in the Americas. Or can we not blame Europe because that does not fit your narrative?

[-] 100_kg_90_de_belin@feddit.it 1 points 8 months ago

European people's hands are soiled with blood, but they don't harp as much about manifest destiny. And they haven't fought a civil war over the rights to treat people like poverty.

[-] CheesyFox@lemmy.world 4 points 8 months ago

yeah, and the ussr is a totally relevant state in our days lol

[-] Hemuphone@lemmy.world 1 points 8 months ago

The Russians seem to think that at least

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[-] AI_toothbrush@lemmy.zip 26 points 8 months ago

I really hate the us but you just have to accept that china being the largest world power would be even worse.

[-] CheesyFox@lemmy.world 3 points 8 months ago

china may have the largest businesses in the world, but they lack cultural leverage. US still stays where it is solely due to its cultural influence on the world. China's culture is alien to us, especially in terms of labor culture.