That's not how revolutions work...a large chunk of people will need to be basically homeless, hungry and jobless for everything to kick off. So long as people can still get their chicken nuggets and iPhones and they have a place to sleep, there will be no revolution. It's ignorant to say that small arms can't do anything, it's how we lost Vietnam/Iraq/Afghanistan. All small arms, because bombs cannot patrol street corners, and if you start killing Americans, you're going to just feed a revolution, remember you probably live right next to one of these so called gun nuts ...and bombs don't give a shit if his house explodes and showers yours with flaming debris.

You say that but Clive Bundy, who had a stand off with the federal government because he didn't feel like paying grazing fees on land that was not his, had his trial dismissed. His son, anarchist Ammon Bundy, who had an armed standoff against the federal government in Malheur Wildlife Refuge which resulted in a death, was acquitted.

Taking up arms against the government has two possible outcomes.

Dunno, my grand-grandparents ended up old Bolsheviks with party membership since 1919.

You are one person with a small number of consumer firearms. The government can show up with a virtually unlimited number of people, with bigger guns, and weapons up to and including tanks, helicopters, and precision guided bombs.

Which is why taking up arms against the government should be approached like an engineering task and not like some impulsive action from Hollywood movies. But it sometimes happens.

And what you are saying wasn't very different even in 14xx-s, to be frank.

Beyond your point, I always felt that the Second Amendment, ostensibly for the purpose of overthrowing the government, is completely redundant. That is to say, if you’re plotting to overthrow the government by force of arms, whether your firearm is constitutionally protected is kind of moot by that point. Ergo, the 2A should have no relevance with regards to holding government tyranny in check.

The fact that we have witnessed successful revolutions throughout history means you are wrong.

This is relevant to a suicide by cop event how?

I wouldn't trust what the ATF has said yet. They fabricated evidence that people at Waco were selling machine guns and explosives to justify their standoff and raid there, turns out all of that was a lie.

They have all the incentive to take control of this story now so public opinion takes their side. Not unsurprisingly, they did the same thing after Waco and Ruby Ridge.

Even if everything the ATF said here is proven completely true, I agree - fuck the ATF, there was no reason to surround this person's house and start shooting. We should all expect much more out of our government than this. Disband these thugs.

He should have just complied.

What happens if an acorn falls on a car between two armed people who want to stand their ground?

Yeah. The argument that the 2nd amendment is necessary to protect against tyranny only works when there is a collective effort to fight back.

A handful of renegades weren't going to topple colonial Britain, either.